MTFCA Forum

I have three Model T’s and when re-building them bought new radiators and took the water pumps off. Here in Texas it gets really hot in the Summer but I never have had a over heating problem. I still see many T’s for sale with water pumps installed.

No bashing or opinions on water pumps please. Just chime in with number of T’s with and without water pumps. I am curious as to the ratio currently.

I’ll start.

3 without water pumps….

5 T's currently without.
2 previous T's without (my first T had a water pump when I bought it- got my radiator fixed).
The weather gets hot in Alabama, but my T's run cool.

Three Ts two came with water pumps one stock

4 T"s

all came with pumps

all came off

2 stayed off and ran just fine

2 went back on; those cars run cool-ish with, and boil quickly without

have too many demands on my $$ to buy 2 new radiators simply to remove pumps and meet with everyone's approval. I'm too old to give a damn what people think.

I am with Scott on this, too many people get their knickers in a bind as soon as some post or asks about a water pump. I have and will, if needed, use one.

I have 3 T’s and no Water Pumps!
This subject will create many opinions but 15 Million of them (less a few) didn’t have them ex factory but, had clean blocks and Radiators!
Alan in Western Australia

I've been running one on my 26 roadster since I finished it 6 years ago. Clean block and head.. good radiator too. Checked head temp this summer at 159 deg F after 14 miles with air temp in the upper 80s running 28mph on flat ground. My 2 friends in WVa run them also. I would rather error on the safe side. I wonder why Henry put a water pump on the model A... Hmmm... either way, just enjoy them, Bill

None of my 6 T's have water pumps. I had a nice one on my Speedster for a year in the '60s but didn't see an improvement. I have no doubt some do help but didn't continue experimenting.
Rich

Two of my three have (wheel chocks) pumps.
One could probably do without the pump now as he's broke in and happy.
Two, won't get changed. He works too good and paraded with ears up without question. With a Maxwell? fan. Actual air flow.
Three, TT didn't have one and didn't much care.

3 T's and have never had waterpumps.
One had a tendency to be hot and boil. Radiator fix fixed that. One more have got a completely new radiator but that was more because the old was leaky.

ARTHUR!!....where are you?

27 Touring. Had water pump when we bought the car from original owner. Also had a large damage to the radiator hidden behind the license plate. Would overheat in parade situations. Eventually bought a new rad and removed the leaky pump. No problems since.

Six Ts No pumps No problems. 1909 to 1913.

160 F is too cold. 180-200 F is better. If I had a TT truck, I'd probably put a water pump on it, with a 180 F thermostat that had a small bypass hole drilled in it. And yes, you can put oatmeal in your radiator, but why bother? No water pump; runs fine in 100 F weather. (Berg radiator) I do run a fan to prevent overheating when stopped to open gates, etc. I can get by without it if need be.

Had 3 T's. 2 with 1 without. Left them on. The last one, a 23' Touring had one installed by the previous owner who had it installed to cure an overheating problem when he drove in the local Memorial Day Parade once a year. Probably a band aid for a failing radiator.

If you run a water pump, keep the seal tight. A leaky seal risks pulling air into the system at road speeds, and you DO NOT want that to happen.

3 of 4 removed. #4 rajo has one still. I have removed at least 6 on motor rebuilds/repair jobs. One recent motor job, I couldnt talk the guy off the idea. The motor was beautifully restored. 50 miles later it had melted grease & water puke all down the left side. Still pissed.

No pump on my '27. It has a Berg's flat-tube radiator, and here in SW Florida's 90+ degree heat it runs cool and never overheats.

I’m looking for a useable pump as I want to install a heater in my coupe project for cold weather operation. I don’t want to use a manifold heater!

Some important things if you do use a water pump.
1. Be sure to use waterpump grease in it, not ordinary grease.
2. Be sure to check the fluid level every time before you start the engine. A small leak can drain the block while parked.
3. Be sure the bushing and packing are in good condition.
4. If you drive in cold weather, use a thermostat to keep the engine up to correct temperature.
5 . Use a motometer or other temperature gauge to see if it is warming up in cold weather.
If you do all these things and fix any problems with it, you will be OK. But there are already many maintenance things to do and adjustments to make without a pump, so that just adds a few more.
Norm

I have six Model T's running without water pumps. Three of those have no fans either.
My Roof Type C 16 valve board track racer has a water pump and dash temperature guage.
It stays in the normal range at any outdoor temperature here in Alberta.
Thank you for starting this thread to get an unbiased opinion on water pumps.
An old friend had difficulties keeping his speedster running in the normal range. He installed one of those little top radiator neck water pumps. It dropped his temperature about 15 degrees F.
Harry

I don't have one on my '23 Touring. While moving even on the hottest (95+ degree) summer days you don't need one if your radiator is good.

Say what you want. The Family T , rebuilt over 50 years ago has a water pump. And there never has been an issue. Living in central Pennsylvania where travel is best on the level, but hilly valley roads, the water pump comes into its own when crossing one of the local "mountains" to drop into into a neighbouring valley. Along the way to the top of the mountain, one would come across a pipe from a mountain spring to refill the radiator or water a horse.

Over all, even with a clean and factory established thermo-cooling system, new radiator, the water pump is not an evil accessory or crutch.

Lets face it, Henry wanted to save money where he could. A water pump was just an other expense for his company. If he wanted to really eliminate liquid cooling he would have built a car similar to the Franklin.

'24 Touring....new Berg's radiator...no water pump.

I've run it in 100+ weather here north of Houston...never even thinks about overheating.

Two Ts 1912 and 1913. Both run nice and cool with water pumps.

John

I have flat tube radiators on my 3 T’s and saved my water pump money. They cool OK and it’s one less part to deal with.

1 T, 1922, with. Because it had one when we inherited it.

None of those boat anchors on my 7 T s....

Have owned over 15 T’s, current stable contains 4.

Never a water pump.

I use to use one until I got a new radiator 10 years ago and haven't since.

Tim

My '17 came with an original radiator and water pump. The pump was frozen and the radiator had a cracked neck. I chose to install a flat-tube Bergs and no pump. I've never come close to overheating, even driving slow on 90° days.

Sold it on eBay and got a Berg Radiator

Tim, I finally got on this site.
I am with Bill Coyle on this one. My 23 touring came to me with a waterpump 44 years ago and it is still on the car.
My round tube radiator is original to the car. Without the pump the car runs cool, but I continue to use it because I feel it helps prolong the life of the radiator.
There are variations in the design and performance of the various brands of waterpumps, so expect different results.

My advice is to add a pump while the radiator is still good to help prolong its life. Henry deleted the pump in order to pump up his profit or to reduce the price of the car. Remember, most of these cars lasted a short time. Radiator life was not a concern.
Art Mirtes

My speedster was running hot in the rear cylinders at high speed (55+) causing 3&4 pistons to skuff... I really enjoy my thermostatically controlled electric water pump now

I’ve owned two model Ts. My first car had an old honeycomb radiator and needed a water pump to prevent overheating. Sold that one after thirty years. My current car has a new Bergs radiator and I’ve never used a water pump on this one. It’s driven around 100 miles a week.

My 1912 Had one on since 1960 In 2013 when I broke the crank we tried it with out ,the engine temp went down and does not boil anymore . My rad is the original round tube and has one tube blocked off. The water pump is now a wall hanger.

A water pump could be a practical accessory for a car in taxi service or delivery service in city traffic or for a TT truck most anywhere. A water pump could be advantageous in mountain country or hot desert country. They require proper installation and proper maintenence to be effective. I believe that a thermostat with some bypass capability would be needed in most situations. Most applications that would benefit from a water pump would also benefit from a fan. Any Model T needs a clean cooling system and a radiator in good condition. Modern anti freeze offers several advantages when used in the Model T system, with or without a water pump and/or a fan.

Two Ts with Climax water pumps, none without.

Do you guys not realise that the Pump Police are compiling a register from this thread and will come visiting shortly!

Mind has one, it came with it, it's a neat period addition and I'm happy with it. If it didn't have one I probably wouldn't go looking - unless there was an issue, in which case I'm with Scott, a pump is probably cheaper than a new radiator, especially here.

If your radiator is badly clogged, your water pump may pump your water out the overflow tube at road speeds. A badly clogged radiator will cause excessive pressure drop in the system, which will aggravate any tendency for the pump to suck in air at the shaft seal, which will cause steam pockets and aggravate corrosion and overheating. Pump or no pump, you need a clean cooling system.

Four T's & four water pumps.

I have a 1926 TT Truck and removed the water pump when I bought it and it runs fine.

I'm afraid to use a water pump on our T. After applying the soap, the water pump might take off some of the paint along with the dirt.

The decision on whether or not to add a water pump ought to be based on conditions under which the vehicle is operated, not the condition of the cooling system.

2 T's....no pumps, but I have one in a box.

Took it off because it leaked!