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Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 pm
by MichaelPawelek
At this time would you feel safer running a repro cutout or a diode on your generator?
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:45 pm
by speedytinc
MichaelPawelek wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 pm
At this time would you feel safer running a repro cutout or a diode on your generator?
Diode!. The cheap mechanical units (very light weight compared to original) commonly failed & killed generators. There is a potted tractor replacement diode unit as cheap as $14 on ebay. I have not used one yet. I have always made my own heavy duty diode units from bad original cutouts.
Any thing you run, keep an eye on the ammeter. If you are not showing a charge, stop immediately & ground out the gen output to save your generator. Keeping gen output @ its lower output adds some cushion. As an unnecessary safety, I have it wired to a ground switch in the cab as mentioned in previous posts.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:53 pm
by TRDxB2
Its really easy to update a cut-out with a diode. Some internal styles may make it a little harder. While the solenoid and diode both prevent the generator from motoring when the engine is turned off there is a difference in continuity testing. The solenoid is an electronic switch that opens or closes based on voltage output from the generator. So when the switch is open there is no continuity across the cut-out contacts.
A diode operates as a voltage check valve, so when the engine is turned off battery current can't pass back into the generator and spin it like a motor. However, it will always show continuity across the cut-out contacts because its designed to allow current to flow in that direction.
This may sound weird, but since there is continuity but no current across the diode the negative battery cable will spark when you reconnect it. Not to worry
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:43 pm
by Dave Young
I’d like to see some more on this topic, as I am also needing a VR or cutout. I do have a few old cutouts that I can do this to. Like to see a few more pictures or drawings. Thanks
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:53 pm
by speedytinc
TRDxB2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:53 pm
Its really easy to update a cut-out with a diode. Some internal styles may make it a little harder. While the solenoid and diode both prevent the generator from motoring when the engine is turned off there is a difference in continuity testing. The solenoid is an electronic switch that opens or closes based on voltage output from the generator. So when the switch is open there is no continuity across the cut-out contacts.
A diode operates as a voltage check valve, so when the engine is turned off battery current can't pass back into the generator and spin it like a motor. However, it will always show continuity across the cut-out contacts because its designed to allow current to flow in that direction.
This may sound weird, but since there is continuity but no current across the diode the negative battery cable will spark when you reconnect it. Not to worry
The diode shown here is a bit weak for my taste. I use one with a 10/32 stud. A very recent post showed it on a sample unit. I dont recall the value ratings off the top. The heavier diode does create more heat, but I vent the back side of the cover. Not had a problem yet. Also, the wire connections are physically set before solder. I have seen other units come unsoldered.
If I reverse the probes with my meter, is shows continuity in 1 direction. The flow of current thru it.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:17 pm
by TRDxB2
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:43 am
by speedytinc
Yes, thats it.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:08 am
by paddy1998
I don't trust myself with these kinds of electrical projects, mostly because I don't have a firm grasp of what's going on.
So I just bought the Nurex semi-conductor cut out. A little spendy but it works great.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:10 pm
by TRDxB2
The NUREX semiconductor cut-out is just another diode version with what they say is a larger heat sink. While they claim "allowing" the maximum of 20amp output from your generator, you best limit the generator to 5-10amps as most are. Filament headlights + tail lights + coils are less than 10amps.
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/prod ... &cat=41710
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:39 pm
by Steve Jelf
The diode makes a cutout electronic rather than mechanical. It doesn't make it a VR.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:06 pm
by MKossor
Anyone within 100 miles of NJ with a functioning generator test stand I could buy or borrow?
I have the VR circuit modeled and simulated but need to build a few and bench test Before making a production run. These would be just the circuit board and components only that would fit into the standard cutout housing OR could be mounted into a separate housing of your choice and wired up.
Thoughts?, suggestions?
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:15 pm
by speedytinc
MKossor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:06 pm
Anyone within 100 miles of NJ with a functioning generator test stand I could buy or borrow?
I have the VR circuit modeled and simulated but need to build a few and bench test Before making a production run. These would be just the circuit board and components only that would fit into the standard cutout housing OR could be mounted into a separate housing of your choice and wired up.
Thoughts?, suggestions?
HELP THIS GUY OUT.
The hobby is on the verge of a reliable supply of voltage regulators once again!! YAY!
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:29 pm
by paddy1998
MKossor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:06 pm
Anyone within 100 miles of NJ with a functioning generator test stand I could buy or borrow?
I have the VR circuit modeled and simulated but need to build a few and bench test Before making a production run. These would be just the circuit board and components only that would fit into the standard cutout housing OR could be mounted into a separate housing of your choice and wired up.
Thoughts?, suggestions?
Off point, but why not design a generator test stand to manufacture and sell?
I couldn't be happier with my ECCT and I-Timer, so I'd buy one.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:23 pm
by speedytinc
paddy1998 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:29 pm
MKossor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:06 pm
Anyone within 100 miles of NJ with a functioning generator test stand I could buy or borrow?
I have the VR circuit modeled and simulated but need to build a few and bench test Before making a production run. These would be just the circuit board and components only that would fit into the standard cutout housing OR could be mounted into a separate housing of your choice and wired up.
Thoughts?, suggestions?
Off point, but why not design a generator test stand to manufacture and sell?
I couldn't be happier with my ECCT and I-Timer, so I'd buy one.
A test stand is a neat luxury. Not necessary for non re builders. When done right, it would be used once in the lifetime of the T owner. The service manual instructs adjusting in car. A guy regularly rebuilding T generators is handy enough to cheaply built their own. Or has & uses a lathe in the process, which can be easily adapted as the motor source. As such there couldnt be a large enough customer base to be feasible. Or, I am too pessimistic & am loosing out on my first million $$.
I missed the boat with the FP VR. Didnt realize the brilliance/magic of em till it was too late.
New VR's from M.K. will be a home run. I am soon going to be out of the cutout diode conversion business & into the cutout VR conversion business.
Can smell it coming.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:33 pm
by Scott_Conger
Scott
in answer to your question: it is a matter of (what I view as) demand...which would be lacking.
Putting together a test stand like I posted on another thread would cost ME around $250 in materials (quality meters, enclosure, motor, coupling, wiring, bar stock). After assembly time, welding time, etc., it would be around $400. Before shipping. And, it isn't really a production-producible thing...it would take more design to be a finished product.
I think I am the King of trying to hawk something no one wants. Every time I make something, I make 1/2 dozen or so. Sometimes they sell...sometimes they sell like gangbusters...more frequently though, they collect dust or at least sell too slowly to invest the time. A lot of this stuff DOES have a buyer (who is typically THRILLED to buy the product) but one sale does not constitute an income stream. This would not be a project that I for one, would undertake and I've been making stuff for the hobby for 15+ years.
Yes, a tester can be put together cheaper...anyone could do it. I could do it...but I would not wish to build a cobbled-together or otherwise substandard product and offer it for sale. It's one thing to be tickled with what someone can do for themself in their own workshop and another thing to spend hard-earned bucks for something junky.
Now watch someone successfully market such a thing and prove me wrong...if so, KUDOS to them.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:36 pm
by TRDxB2
MKossor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:06 pm
Anyone within 100 miles of NJ with a functioning generator test stand I could buy or borrow?
I have the VR circuit modeled and simulated but need to build a few and bench test Before making a production run. These would be just the circuit board and components only that would fit into the standard cutout housing OR could be mounted into a separate housing of your choice and wired up.
Thoughts?, suggestions?
Sent you this via email it describes the Fun Projects Voltage regulator.
https://www.cool386.com/regulator/regulator.html
As far as design...
A separate unit would easier to install at the battery or wherever. Doesn't require replacing the existing cut-out (diode or solenoid)
Less expensive to make (doesn't require a cut-out container & can use available circuit boxes), can still contain a cutout function for extra protection
Might incorporate a fuse as well since one is needed and placement is always questioned.
Voltage output variable for 6,8,12 volt battery
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:40 pm
by paddy1998
Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:33 pm
Scott
in answer to your question: it is a matter of (what I view as) demand...which would be lacking.
Putting together a test stand like I posted on another thread would cost ME around $250 in materials (quality meters, enclosure, motor, coupling, wiring, bar stock). After assembly time, welding time, etc., it would be around $400. Before shipping. And, it isn't really a production-producible thing...it would take more design to be a finished product.
I think I am the King of trying to hawk something no one wants. Every time I make something, I make 1/2 dozen or so. Sometimes they sell...sometimes they sell like gangbusters...more frequently though, they collect dust or at least sell too slowly to invest the time. A lot of this stuff DOES have a buyer (who is typically THRILLED to buy the product) but one sale does not constitute an income stream. This would not be a project that I for one, would undertake and I've been making stuff for the hobby for 15+ years.
Yes, a tester can be put together cheaper...anyone could do it. I could do it...but I would not wish to build a cobbled-together or otherwise substandard product and offer it for sale. It's one thing to be tickled with what someone can do for themself in their own workshop and another thing to spend hard-earned bucks for something junky.
Now watch someone successfully market such a thing and prove me wrong...if so, KUDOS to them.
I'm a sucker for expensive tools that I'll only use once or twice.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:58 pm
by Scott_Conger
You 'n me, both, brother!
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:59 pm
by Andy Loso
Mike
I have one. But you'll have to add a 0 to the end of your 100 miles and probably change the 1 to a 2.
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:22 pm
by MKossor
Hey Andy, great news! How about meeting me half way?
Re: Since There Are No Cutouts With VR’s Inside Available….
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:40 pm
by Andy Loso
Mike,
The tester is on a stand with wheels, but I don't think they'd hold up to highway speeds....