MTFCA Forum

Which method is better or are they equal? Evenly space the first run of pins, then after peening and cleaning up, fill in the spaces or chain each pin to the previous one as you go along?

Mark Gregush wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:11 pm

Which method is better or are they equal? Evenly space the first run of pins, then after peening and cleaning up, fill in the spaces or chain each pin to the previous one as you go along?

My guy always did a continuous overlap inline. These were the taper threaded cast iron pins.

Those are the pins I am using. Water jacket repair.

Lock N stitch leaves a space than come back and fill in.
You can watch a video on their web site on how to do it. Dan

Here's a nifty water jacket crack - it had been soldered then slathered up with JB Weld - owner couldn't figure out why it "weeped" coolant !!! Not sure Lok-n- Stitch would repair this one !

You would be surprised. Question is would it be worth it.
Depends on year of block. Dan

It was a '26- '27 block with a Fronty on it ! It has a replacement block in it now.

So now I have tried it both ways. What a pain! The block is so thin, I had to run the pins across the hole in a couple of places to lock the pin on either side. Had a couple of places when I drilled the hole for the pin in between, the installed pin on one side dropped out. Could not peen some areas, the pin wanted to drop down because there wasn't a lot of block to grab, and a couple that started spinning while drilling the hole. I think I have it buttoned up, but will not know till I pressure test. Only about 42 pins to do both cracks, well so far, would have been more, but I reused the cut-off part on some of them!
Next time I think I will try solder or just stick to JB Weld.

Yea, the problem with pinning freeze cracks is often not enuf wall thickness to hold the plugs. I've used jb weld with window screen to repair a cack in a water pump with success. The key was to V the crack good so I could get a good amount of the stuff in there.

You might investigate www.breckocorp.com offerings. These people offer wide variety of welding products, including several designed for difficult cast iron welding and repair jobs, including arc, gas, and soldering/brazing processes. I have not used any of these products, but I have seen advertizing for them for several years.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:44 am

You might investigate www.breckocorp.com offerings. These people offer wide variety of welding products, including several designed for difficult cast iron welding and repair jobs, including arc, gas, and soldering/brazing processes. I have not used any of these products, but I have seen advertizing for them for several years.

Common sense tells me a long thin crack is going to spread as you tension each pin. I am thinking a countersunk hole welded up every inch, to keep the crack from widening would be a good way to go. I have seen successful JB weld & ultra black crack repairs. V'ing the crack & screen support in the worst cases. The beauty of it, is that if it still leaks it can be re patched @ the weep spot or easily redone and all without pulling the motor!
Doing a full weld or braze would not be on the list. I know of too many attempts where blocks were stripped bare, oven heated, & successfully/professionally welded only to end up with an expensive warped paper weight/anchor. If you cant fix it cheap, find another block & start over. There is no shortage of post 19 blocks. Post open valve blocks can be reasonably faked(for aesthetics, not fraud, but beware) from pre 19 blocks. The earlier stuff. Save @ all cost. But, of course, the whole idea of the fix is to save an otherwise good motor.
Didnt mean this to be a reply to TXGOAT2 post. Just a general reply.

I wondered if the pinning method caused speading force. Some kind of undercut thread might avoid that by providing some latching effect to prevent spreading the crack. Has anyone tried spray welding? Doing any water jacket repair might go better with a cylinder head and gasket bolted in place. Maybe the Chinese will start making exact repro blocks..... Someone is, or was, attempting to produce repro Model A blocks with upgades like 5 main bearings. The idea was to make an improved block that fit exactly in the external envelope of a stock block. I don't know how far that project got, but the person or people involved had the technical know how. ****New info: www.burtzblock.com **** A Model T repro block, straight stock or improved, might be a higher volume seller.... ?

On the left there seems to be no shortage of good blocks.
I did go to Pate once & came back with 4 of 5 unseen cracked 27 blocks. Ooops. Ignorant me.
I do sympathize for those in freeze states.

Can pinning cause spreading, sure it can. If you are using a tapered tap and inserting a tapered pin style and put too much force on the pin when screwing it in.
In my case, this block matches the title, so trying to save it. I have a couple of other blocks, but would require either getting a tag from the state with my serial number or machine off the pad and restamp. But saving this block may end up being foolish and could end up biting me in the end, but I hope not!
These cracks were not be seen till the block was cleaned. There was only a very small weep that was located right under the water inlet, so I did not even think about a crack, thinking it was from the water inlet.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:56 pm

On the left there seems to be no shortage of good blocks.
I did go to Pate once & came back with 4 of 5 unseen cracked 27 blocks. Ooops. Ignorant me.
I do sympathize for those in freeze states.

Maybe on the left coast down south, maybe not so much up north! I have a Dodge Brothers block, #4 cylinder got water in it, froze, broke a big chunk of cylinder wall out.

Mark,

I have had decent success on water jacket stuff using what the old-timers called a rust joint.

Find the ends of the crack, drill a 1/8" hole-let the drill do the cutting, not your weight. This should stop the stress line.

Take an old chunk of cast iron and make a jar full of filings with a rough file.

Buy some sal-ammoniac acid...

Buy some powdered sulphur...

Make a new powder at 16 - 2 -1 by volume. 16 iron filings, 2 sal-ammoniac, 1 powdered sulfur.

Add water slowly to make a thick paste...

Lather it on, shape it just like auto putty, leave it a little proud and set it aside. When it dries, its done self-cooking then sand/grind to final profile---or leave it alone.

I did the water jacket on one this way, maybe in 1979. Last time I checked, it still holds water without weep.

Nice thing is, you did nothing to change the original block, just filled it in like plaster on lath...I believe the way it works as the chemistry promotes rust growth in presence of water then the rust granules wind up bigger than the iron granules started...they self compress, they seal.

I know guys 'pin' things all the time, but another trick I tried successfully long ago on a head jacket crack is the copper rod seal. Grab a chunk of 3/8 copper rod and a 3/8-24 tap & die &proper tap drill. Thread the entire rod. Start at one end of the crack, drill and tap block...insert copper rod..cut off copper rod slightly proud. Half lap the next, and so forth until just past the other end of the crack. Then ball peen the copper to near flat, then grind file to size. A lot of work...thats why I tried the chemistry solution on the next one...lol

Good luck

Is that chemical mixture what was once called litherige?

Pat,

What you refer to is lead based and works in a similar matter by changing to lead oxide as it dries. It fell out of favor for other than basic hobbies stuff because it is...L E A D

Thanks everyone. Will see how the leak test goes and I will update then.