MTFCA Forum

Noticing large flakes of rust in my radiator I drained and flushed my cooling system. Then I refilled it with a mixture of RUST911 concentrate. I left it in for 24 hours, and even drove the car with it in without any problem. When drained the clear concentrate came out black. I repeated the operation and this time it was light grey. After the third application it drained clear. By removing the hoses I could see sparkling clean block and head. The radiator was also rust free. No flakes at all. I chose to refill the system with Waterless coolant. No water = no rust.

https://www.amazon.com/Rust911-16-gallo ... 0cnVl&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/EVANS-Coolant-EC ... 91865&th=1

The rust color changes indicate its a concentrated phosphate based product .
Information on toxicological effects Phosphonic Acid, Salt LD50 Oral Rat / Male/Female 1,512 mg/kg -
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Always good to know what works for a specific problem.
https://www.rust911.com/rust911-home-page/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/best-rust-remover/

A proper mix of modern anti-freeze and clean water will prevent rust very effectively. Pure water does not cause rust, nor does it conduct electricity. One of the quicket ways to rust up a clean system is to run with a leaking head gasket. Even a slight leak will promote corrosion.

I use a 50/50 mix of green antifreeze in all mt T's, no rust.

Old school was water with 1/2 cup soluble cutting oil. It works good for storage too.

Pat

once oxygen is admitted into pure water through the process of cooling the vehicle, it can (and will) cause rust.

while technically true, the assertion that pure water will not cause rust, is highly misleading to the layman. Your advice is typically very good, and thus in my opinion should in this case, come with a big disclaimer that it is not a safe alternative to using corrosion inhibitors. The hobby loses enough blocks each year to folks who maintain "by god, Henry used water, so I will, too" to leave folks with the wrong impression of the safety of using plain or purified water.

Pure water is very scarce, and it will not stay pure in a Model T cooling system. Water freezes at about 32F, and when it does, it expands by 10 to 11 per cent with enough force to break an engine block to pieces and damage or destroy a radiator. Water boils at around 212 F at sea level, and will boil at lower temperatures at higher altitudes. Some minerals will lower the boiling point of water. The most practical way of dealing with the many shortcomings of water as a coolant in an automotive cooling system is to use a good brand of automotive antifreeze in an appropriate mix with clean water. Using chemical cleaners in a dirty, corroded, century-old cooling system can get good results, but it can also open old cracks, promote head gasket leaks, and render a serviceable old radiator useless. Cleaning the water jackets on an old block and head to bare iron makes it very important to take effective steps to prevent any further corrosion.

Our well water is so full of bicarbonates I use antifreeze and distilled water….

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:08 pm

A proper mix of modern anti-freeze and clean water will prevent rust very effectively. Pure water does not cause rust, nor does it conduct electricity. One of the quicket ways to rust up a clean system is to run with a leaking head gasket. Even a slight leak will promote corrosion.

I agree. It is the impurities in water that conduct electricity and cause rust. I use 50/50 green anti-freeze and clean (not distilled) water and I have no rust issues.

Old chemistry teacher here.... I always mix distilled water with antifreeze before adding it to my cooling system. Distilled water is so cheap and won't leave a load of minerals in your engine. Since I have an aluminum head the corrosion protection of a 50/50 antifreeze mix is a must.

Don't put well water into cooling systems. Most all of it is heavily mineralized. Water can be clear as gin and still be loaded with minerals. Well water is what wrecked a lot of T cooling systems. Model Ts using water only will need the water replnished from time to time to make up for evaporation. As a result, they concentrate any minerals present in the water used. Over time, you wind up with a coolant that resembles the Dead Sea.

Some of the clearest water I've ever seen weighed nearly ten pounds per gallon.

Chris Haynes wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:07 pm

Noticing large flakes of rust in my radiator I drained and flushed my cooling system.
…

If you had flakes in the radiator, you may still have some in the block. I flushed my radiator with Thermocure after noticing the drain petcock clogged with rust. Afterwards it took a couple of clear water flushes to clear all the sediment that the Thermocure loosened up. A couple of days later I took the cylinder head off (to diagnose an unrelated issue) and noticed LARGE flakes of what appeared to be loosened calcium deposits piled up in the passages between the block and head. I assume the flow of the thermosiphon process wasn't strong enough to push them out. By the time I picked it all out I had a red solo cup with about 1/4 inch of the stuff in the bottom.

I don't know if it's still available, but DuPont #7 cooling system cleaner used to be the best. You drained and flushed the cooling system, then added the white powder chemical. You then ran the engine for a specified period of time and drained and flushed the cooling system again. You then added a neutralizer that came in the same package and ran the engine for a shorter period of time, then refilled the cooling system with the coolant that you are going to use.
Note: As with any good cooling system cleaner, If you have a radiator that has one foot in the grave and the other on a Banana peel, you may have a radiator with both feet in the grave after the cleaning and flushing. What that will tell you is that you needed a new radiator before the cleaning started.

mbowen wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:45 pm

Chris Haynes wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:07 pm

Noticing large flakes of rust in my radiator I drained and flushed my cooling system.
…

If you had flakes in the radiator, you may still have some in the block. I flushed my radiator with Thermocure after noticing the drain petcock clogged with rust. Afterwards it took a couple of clear water flushes to clear all the sediment that the Thermocure loosened up. A couple of days later I took the cylinder head off (to diagnose an unrelated issue) and noticed LARGE flakes of what appeared to be loosened calcium deposits piled up in the passages between the block and head. I assume the flow of the thermosiphon process wasn't strong enough to push them out. By the time I picked it all out I had a red solo cup with about 1/4 inch of the stuff in the bottom.

A365AD99-9C6B-4FCF-AA8F-C672300669A8.jpeg

You missed the point. The RUST911 dissolved all the flakes.

Whatever you use to prevent rust, it's important to use something. The head on my 1915 was so rusted away inside that it developed a leak near the rear, which I patched. Recently it sprang another leak between #3 and #4. I replaced the head, I hope with a better one. In addition to antifreeze to prevent rust, I also use distilled water because the tap water here and in many places has a lot of minerals that form scale.

I heat tap water to make tea in this pan. Notice how bits of mineral scale have broken loose, perfect for clogging radiator tubes.

Yes well water will leave mineral deposits in your engine if you use it all the time!
The mention of well water brings back memories growing up and my Mothers tea kettle we had for years. I may still have it somewhere in our sheds. She finally had to get another one because the one she had was coated with the white minerals from our well. The ‘rock’ that was in it made the old kettle heavy! She was so use to it it was hard to stop using it!

Chris Haynes wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:13 pm

You missed the point. The RUST911 dissolved all the flakes.

That’s what I thought the Thermocure had done until I removed the head.

I buy water soluble oil at my local machine tool supply. I've been using it for over 50 years with no problems. I don't recommend using anti freeze in brass radiator cars either. If it gets onto the brass, it etches it, and is very difficult to polish out.

Has anyone here used the Evans brand waterless coolant in any of their cars? I've had Evans waterless coolant in my Model t for the last 15 years and have had no problems other than locating loose hose clamps that showed some leakage. If there's anyone else that has used Evans please post your experience ......

What does it cost?

Moxie26 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:54 am

Has anyone here used the Evans brand waterless coolant in any of their cars? I've had Evans waterless coolant in my Model t for the last 15 years and have had no problems other than locating loose hose clamps that showed some leakage. If there's anyone else that has used Evans please post your experience ......

Evans waterless has been discussed here often. Here is a thread that was just a few months ago, and has links to earlier discussions, as well.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21505&p=165266&hilit=evans#p165266

Eric