Fine Line Between Hoarding and Collecting

[Humblej]

I wanted to attend the Model T Haven auction but family obligations prevented that. My only interest in attending was to see it for the first and last time, and to give someone a run for their money on the snowmobile parts. I have bought a couple of things from Mark a decade or two ago with mixed satisfaction. I have no real need to travel so far for rusty wishbones, axles, and rotted wheels, in short, parts I could find anywhere at anytime. I do not know Marks reason for selling, and it is non of my business, but it is hard to understand someone's business plan that involves accumulating 500 wishbones 1000 spoke wheels, hundreds of axles, frames, etc. Interesting to read peoples comments regarding the need to keep these parts around for future projects, but by all reports the only ones lining up with 18 wheeler trucks were the scrappers. And although I am sorry to see it go, scrap is probably what most of it was good for. How many people actually went to Model T Haven over the years and bought quantities of parts that would make this business profitable and warrant keeping it going? I didnt. The snowmobile parts were listed and relisted on ebay for months with a starting bid of $3600. I reached out to Mark and suggested he try a lower starting bid and see if he could get some movement, he did not respond or list it lower, and I understand it went for $600 at the auction. Hard to run a business selling rusty junk to tight wad model T owners. I recently made the 3 hour trip down to my farm junk yard, the only place around where I can get parts for 50-75 year old tractors and farm equipment, stuff that is no longer manufactured and does not have new parts available for support, some are companies that have been out of business for decades. He had an auction a month before and most went for scrap, 20 acres of equipment picked clean down to the dirt. My only source for spare parts gone. Some giant machine ripped everything up and another machine was loading it into 18 wheelers. Took a month to do it but it is all gone. Next time my corn picker breaks I am in big trouble. I can not believe Mark was making the money he should for the investment he had in parts, property, buildings, and labor. I wonder if at some point it stopped being inventory and became hoarding. I know people bought from him, but what is the sense of having 500 wishbones along with the other huge quantity of model T junk.

[Scott_Conger]

The sad thing is that each of those 500 wishbones (and other parts) were the result of being the high bidder at a previous series of auctions. And every such purchase represents other bidders who DIDN'T end up with one or a couple of parts. Every such purchase would have undoubtedly resulted in another T being put on the road or at least the parts would have been disbursed across the USA and not scrapped in one giant collective heap.

Really, it's too bad but inevitable.

I made one visit there while on a cross-country trip with an empty cargo trailer. I failed to call ahead and found the property with all doors unlocked, radio playing, A/C on, and after a 40 minute wait with plenty of pacing and calling to get ANYONE's attention, I finally left a note with a phone # requesting a call so as to make an appointment to come back by at a time when they were not only open but STAFFED. Never received a phone call and when I made my return trip, I took a more advantageous route rather than waste my time twice.

It was an odd business plan, for sure.

[It's Bill]

Well, I'm depressed now...

[Dennis Prince]

It's not really hoarding if your stuff is cool and it's only junk if it's not yours.

[John kuehn]

To each his own I say. One mans junk is another mans treasure. I think Mark helped save a lot of T parts, junk and etc.
Hopefully pieces and parts will find its way to to someone who need it. T restores have been hoarding T parts for years. It depends what you call hoarding. I junked lots of old fenders that were way to gone to use BUT I did save all the brackets off of them.
Undoubtedly there were some good parts that wound up to the scrappers at Marks place.

More than a few folks on this forum got their T parts from “hoarders” over the years and they were glad to find them.

[TRDxB2]

Several reasons to have more than 2 of the same items in your inventory:
Have more than 1 Model T and its a not a wear/service part.
You buy/sell to support your addiction
Rare or they're the only ones you have ever seen
They don't make reproductions (anymore)
Its cool
For display
one-up·man·ship
To keep you spouse happy
They're head gaskets
Poor inventory management
I fellow T guy told me not to throw or sell anything away until I was done with a particular project.

[John kuehn]

Yes. That’s why I saved the fender brackets. Those are some parts that no ones reproducing. A few may be but most aren’t. None of the T fender makers make brackets for them that I know of. Probably because of the cost of the tooling to press them out.

[JTT3]

As a forced reformed hoarder I can understand! Many times I bought vehicles from folks to save them from becoming a hot rod, a mistake. Parts I’ve bought for future projects or things I might need but didn’t have a need for right then happened often. Sometimes you have to buy everything to get what you want. I told myself that I might not have a chance to find the item again down the road. “If you find something you need you better get it, might not be another chance”. T folks that passed and the families left with a lot of stuff they didn’t value would call & wanted it gone or they’d have it haul off. It begins to pile up and as much as I gave away more appeared. You try to save everything because they’re not making it anymore are they?
I never was in the T model business but I am an enthusiastic hobbiest. I rarely bought things to sell unlike someone who is running a business. Stuff I bought I gave away or used for trade to help the hobby with new blood. In fairness I sold some at Chickasha but mostly bought and what I brought to sell sometimes sold but if it didn’t other vendors got some really great deals because a lot of it I wasn’t bring back. Now I’m very selective in what I buy and there is an immediate need not for projects way down the road. Based on my age that road is shorter. I can totally understand where a person in business over the years can just have tons & tons of stuff and when they decide it’s time to stop they offer the package for sale. No buyers because they don’t live close to the area, it doesn’t make sense to buy it and haul it to your location based on the distance so what’s the seller to do? Are they supposed to stop their life and wait for someone to that wants to move to the business location? Could you hire a staff to work the location while you monitor the business remotely? What’s the likelihood that you could find staff that knew old cars & parts in that area and pay them to just break even? From what I’ve been told by friends that were there, you could buy stuff there for pennies on the dollar or less. It was known that it was being sold. People that wanted to come perhaps could have but didn’t, those that did smartly bought only what they needed or bought as much as they could resale. So don’t blame the owner, the opportunity was there for some to buy everything, most of everything or as little as they wanted. The latter was what happen if you don’t include the scrappers. Again don’t blame the seller, what are they suppose to do? Just leave the property and post a sign saying come get what you want, I’m gone? Who do you think would have come and loaded up? Well you know the answer to that.
I personally don’t begrudge the seller, I hope you won’t either. Am I sad, sure but what is the choice? I’m hoping & praying for them to have a great life and take the time to really enjoy the next chapter.

[MichaelPawelek]

Maybe we could give some of the spare parts we will never use to our local Model T Club to judiciously hand out to deserving newer younger members who are financially not able to buy everything they need. At least some parts would actually go to a good cause.

[dobro1956]

One thing no one is considering. Mark was in business as Model T Haven for 35 years. It was his main means of income. It was not a hobby. It was his livelihood. I have been to his place enough thru the years to know the shear volumn of cars and parts that went thru that place. He would buy things at auction but tons of the stuff he got was buying estates. Almost everything in the back lot was only there because he saved it from the scrappers in the first place. He has litterly sent hundreds of shipping containers to Australia, England, Japan, China, etc etc etc. Not to mention the vast amount of parts and cars he sold to all of us here at home in the US. So if you take the tons of parts and cars sold in 35 years. That pile of stuff that was at the auction is but a drop in the bucket, to what was saved by Mark at Model T Haven. As to all the parts Mark bought at Chickasha and other swap meets. Him being a dealer of parts, he had to buy the stuff cheap enough to resell at some kind of a profit. So at the swap meets he is not buying the big rusty hulks, he is buying things good enough to resell. He also is not buying the common parts. In my opinion I would guess he had sold 99% of swap meet buys he made thru the years. So most all the piles of common parts and the bad parts in the back lot is a result of buying estates from family's that probably would have scrapped it all years ago. I myself have bought many estates from family's who were planning on scrapping everything but the complete cars. To them all that "junk" dad had in the barn, sheds, and back yard was just junk. In a smaller way than Mark,I was doing the same thing Mark was doing . But, I had a job as a construction Boilermaker to pay my bills. So I understand the shear volume of labor and expense it takes to move an entire estate and go thru it, then sell it to a bunch of cheap Model T "old farts" . People who have never done it really have no clue what is involved. I think Mark did a very good job of saving way more stuff than we will ever know. I wish him well in his retirement,

[Original Smith]

It's nice to have a few extra parts around. You never know when a need will arise! I bought a '13 a few years back that had numerous owners before me. It was missing all kinds of parts, probably because of that. I was able to find the parts I needed for the car from my garage.

[JohnM]

For me, the line is clear. Hoarders want EVERYTHING, and won't SELL ANYTHING.

[John_manuel]

Some years ago I was in search of wire wheels for my T I contacted Model T Haven and made a deal for a set which he said he would take to Chickasha for me. A few days prior to the meet I contacted him to confirm and he assured me that he would have wheels at Chickasha. I drove 600 miles and found his spot but he was no where around After waiting for a while I called and he said he would be there in a few minutes. He showed up about an hour later and told me quite curtly that he had not brought any wheels No apology, no explanation. I cannot fathom how this man could have run a business dealing with the public for so many years. I never said anything about it before but since the business is now closing I feel at liberty to do so. Since then I have come across items on ebay that I would have bid on but when I realized who the seller was, I would not have bid under any circumstances. I can't help but feel this post reflects poorly on me but this experience has been a thorn in my side for a long time.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Some years ago I was in search of wire wheels for my T I contacted Model T Haven and made a deal for a set which he said he would take to Chickasha for me. A few days prior to the meet I contacted him to confirm and he assured me that he would have wheels at Chickasha. I drove 600 miles and found his spot but he was no where around After waiting for a while I called and he said he would be there in a few minutes. He showed up about an hour later and told me quite curtly that he had not brought any wheels No apology, no explanation. I cannot fathom how this man could have run a business dealing with the public for so many years. I never said anything about it before but since the business is now closing I feel at liberty to do so. Since then I have come across items on ebay that I would have bid on but when I realized who the seller was, I would not have bid under any circumstances. I can't help but feel this post reflects poorly on me but this experience has been a thorn in my side for a long time.

A friend of mine had a similar experience, with items purchased on eBay and received with parts missing. Too bad...

[Ruxstel24]

I have seen the fine line first hand....
Maybe not like the Haven buttttt. For one man just doing swap meets and not trying hard. My old man was on the hoarding side of the line. 40+ spindles, 20-30 coil boxes, 20-30 axle housings and axles, torque tubes, 50 something rods and caps. 2 garages, 1 attic, and a large carport, absolutely packed full. Model trains too !!
Some of the things he had kept, may have been decent when acquired, but poor storage sent several tons to the China grinder after I inherited it. I need to gather up the receipts and see the actual tonnage. I’ve scraped engine blocks, frames, axles, engine pans, wishbones...sadly.

[It's Bill]

Model trains? Now you're talkin'! What scale and guage? Sorry, off topic. Bill

[Michael Peternell]

Yup and for sure as OP asked. Dad always said any fool can throw s..t away.

[FreighTer Jim]

“ Hoarding Versus Collecting “ doesn’t apply
to a business - it also is a relative term based
on perspective - usually the perspective of
someone that wants something from someone
else who doesn’t want to give it up.


FJ

[pellow]

shame on you that feel you need to slam others in our hobby. No wonder we have such a hard time getting young people to join I have bought lots from mark proud to call him a friend

[sweet23]

Never throw anything away, you can always add on to the building !

[Dan B]

This is the future. There has been at least one other “model t collection” auction recently where entire shelves and bins of parts were sold for a few bucks. You can’t be for “keeping the hobby alive” and also care about getting the money out of a part you paid top dollar for 40 years ago. Times are changing.