MTFCA Forum

I am assembling my gearbox after having replaced a couple of wheels which loose a tooth and made my roadster pick-up to a high gear only car.
Now when I managed to catch the 3 pins in the flywheel the transmission is somewhat tight. I can move the drums by hand but not freely.
I believe there is only one way the three triple gears and the center gear can mesh and sit on the triple gear at the same time. All other combinations and the triple gears won't catch the pins. There is no "almost right" just one tooth off - or is there?

I recon that it is only in low and reverse the gears are working and I am to some extend where I just assemble the clutch and the rest of the transmission (bottom and hogshead, bands and what have you), drop it in the car and fire it up and take it from there.

However - if it stresses the teeth on the gears so one break again, well - that's not what I want.

I must say that the triple gears and center gear is from another transmission - I believe, but I MAY have mixed them up so that they may not have run together, but shouldn't they in principle be interchangable?

What do you think?

The translation is horrible, but ill take a shot.
Parts are interchangeable. Mixed will be noisier for a while.
Tripple gears are marked for proper orientation on each gear. Proper bushing clearance & center bored?
Every thing should rotate freely.

The triple gears have to be equally spaced 120 degrees apart or in other words 9 teeth between each other. That’s the instruction in the Ford service manual. You can set the first gear anywhere BUT the other two HAVE to be spaced 9 teeth apart using the punch marks as a guide.

When replacing the same parts from other transmissions it can be noisy but work. You mentioned that your transmission had some gears with broken teeth and you replaced them with good gears.
Did you previously assemble the transmission and and it eventually had to be repaired again?

I would not mix used gears or new and used gears.

Michael

the answer to your specific question is: each triple gear has a mark, or "U" which is the specific mesh required to the drum assembly. There are actually 3 locations on each triple gear which would be a non-binding mesh, but only one of those locations is marked by FORD. See Ken's picture here: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/11 ... 1285802179

Each of the 3 triple gears must be thus matched to the drum assembly, wired up tight and then lowered over the flywheel pins. Any other combination of tooth spacing will be "almost right" but will destroy the transmission.

So, try again!

Good luck

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:02 am

The translation is horrible, but ill take a shot.

OK, I use to be told I write a fairly good english, but it is not my native language, John.

Thanks guys! I have assembled a transmission a couple of times before and thought I did it right, but I must take it apart again and try once more.
I do not care that much if low or reverse is a little noisy and buying new gears is just not an economic option now as a retiree.

Thanks again!

Michael

your English is fine, and easily followed particularly when considered in context of the subject asked about.

dykker5502 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:16 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:02 am

The translation is horrible, but ill take a shot.

OK, I use to be told I write a fairly good english, but it is not my native language, John.

Thanks guys! I have assembled a transmission a couple of times before and thought I did it right, but I must take it apart again and try once more.
I do not care that much if low or reverse is a little noisy and buying new gears is just not an economic option now as a retiree.

Thanks again!

If my answers made scene, then its good enough. My danish is non existent. Must be me. I need subtitles to understand "english" movies.
The more you drive it, the quieter it will get. Good luck.

I tried on purpose several years ago to fit the trans to the fly wheel with a triple gear out one tooth, I found it was impossible.

It's very possible - BTDT !

I wasn’t going to mention that earlier but I did that several years ago. Don’t ask me how I did it but after two tries I finally used a piece of Venetian blind cord to help hold the gears close together. First two times it didn’t seem quite right but was together.
The third time did the trick as the drums spun good. The last transmission I did the first try without any type of cord and it worked fine. Go figure?? I have always used good parts when necessary. Nothing new. I guess it’s the small differences in mixed parts and worn tolerances.
I’ve put some together that were quieter than others like most of us has when using used parts.

Hi All

I recently ended up helping another T owner with a similar problem Freshly re-assembled engine and transmission. He installed the assembly and had no neutral and appeared to be stuck in high gear. With the transmission inspection cover off, the clutch fingers appeared to have too much play too. The engine could not be turned or cranked with the starter unless one rear wheel was jacked up. The transmission was locked in high.

Anyway, we took the engine out and pulled the transmission and dug out the MTFCA transmission overhaul book and pulled it apart. It was a transmission assembled from parts from 2 or more transmissions during the rebuild after experiencing a major transmission failure, broken magnets, teeth off the slow speed drum gear and teeth broken off the triple gears and a damaged magneto coil ring a few weeks earlier.

When I did my transmission a few years ago I was following the book guidelines and found that you have to follow them closely, but also be open to interpreting what is more important when two instructions result in conflicting results.

The manual says to install the three thrust washers below the clutch drum. It also says that you should have .015 to .027 inches free play between the clutch drum and the washers. The amount of free play is best checked with a dial gauge mounted on the brake drum with the pointer on the inner clutch drum, then lift the brake drum on the shaft and see what the free play is (transmission and engine are vertical here). Sometimes when mixing and matching parts, three thrust washers can end up being too thick and there may be little or no free play for brake drum to move. You can sometimes also get an idea of free play if the bands are all loose (or off) and then try to slide the brake drum back and forth on the transmission shaft.

If it won’t slide or move, then you will also likely need to pull it back out and reassemble the transmission.

After reviewing the transmission sectional drawings and how it works, I decided it was more important to have the right end float for the brake drum than whether or not there were three thrust washers in place. So, I ended up with two thrust washers and the right amount of end play and mine worked fine.

We found no end play in my friends’ transmission. After several checks, we removed one thrust washer, left two and could get the required end float for the brake drum. The washers we took out looked burned and scraped too.

I also found that the three push pins on the clutch pressure ring looked short and did not appear to be sticking up in the end plate holes. They were down near the bottom of the guide holes. We compared them to a couple other lying around and found that the pins were nearly 1/16” short. So, we also changed the clutch pressure ring and with the replacement ones the pins stuck up into the guide holes and were nearly flush with the top of the plate. If the pins don’t stick up enough, the clutch pressure ring could turn and jam between the end cover and the clutch discs locking it in high gear.

Another potential issue with the earlier transmissions which used the brass combination bushing and thrush washer is that the first clutch plate must be the special thicker distance plate. Regular plates are too thin and can turn and jam under the clutch drum. I believe this only applies to those before about 1916(?).

And follow the manual instructions for stacking the clutch plates, there is a particulate order of which one to start with.

My friend’s re-assembled transmission has since been installed in his car and he can now turn the engine over freely in neutral, it cranks easier and so far, now has both low and high gear again. Unfortunately, the snow started today so it hasn’t had a full road test yet.

Anyway, some suggestions on what to look for with your T.

Good Luck

Jeff
Nova Scotia
Canada

Come across it several times on why a transmission did not have all 3 thrust washers in place, all times it was the front bush not pressed in far enough and riding on the taper of the drive shaft at the fly wheel end.

Hi Kerry

Good point and worth checking also. But I do think in our cases we did have the bushings all the way in. Mixing and matching parts from different years and batches doesn't help either.

In the case of my friend's transmission, these weren't the first washers with signs of overheating to come out of it either. For various reasons, his has been in and out at least 3 time since the original restoration. Its been a frustrating car for him.

Jeff
Nova Scotia

At what point during the assembly does it get tight to turn?
I assume you are using the original pins and used gear and bushings the face of the bushing touches the flywheel. There should be about 0.006” clearance between the gear and the flywheel.
I assemble the drums on a flat surface, then put the triple gears and driven gears with the “U” meshing. I wire the assembly tight and then lower the flywheel onto the gears. It usually goes second or third try. Now turn the whole thing over and the drums should rotate fairly freely. If not you messed up somewhere.
The next possible catch is the thick big disk on early brake drums where the splines don’t go all the way to the bottom of the drum.
One othe problem could be the push pins on the clutch push ring are not in the holes when you install the backplate. Again until the spring applies pressure you should be able to rotate the drums with the clutch plates installed. It’s not easy but it should rotate. Once the 13/16” is set, it’s all fairly solid.