What kind of rim
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Topic author - Posts: 85
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:00 am
- First Name: George
- Last Name: Loranger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 touring
- Location: Grafton ND
- MTFCA Number: 32239
What kind of rim
On removing the rims from my 24 t for sandblasting and found what is left of the rim lock. Does anyone know what type of lock this is and if there is any way to repair it?
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- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Tomaso
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
- Location: Longbranch, WA
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- MTFCI Number: 15411
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Re: What kind of rim
Possibly Canadian - they used a somewhat of a hinge & pin arrangement.
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- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: What kind of rim
Looks like the original latch has been broken off.
Norm
Norm
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- First Name: Wayne
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Re: What kind of rim
A lot of Canadian rims used the four skinny hinge-like loops as a latch for these split rims. Many of the Canadian rims also had four holes (two each end, two each side) close to the split ends of the rim for the "mouse trap" type rim spreader to slip into.
Over the years, I haven't had many 21 inch balloon type wheels tires or rims (too modern for me?), but I have had a few. One rim I had years ago had the hinge-like loops for a latch, but it did not have the holes for the rim spreader. Whether it was a USA oddity, after-market or what? I don't have the answer. Another rim I had years ago, did have the holes for the rim spreader, however had one of the common USA type latch mechanisms. I don't remember now whether it had the twist lever latch or the bolt type, but it wasn't the hinge-like loops.
The mouse-trap rim spreader and rims with holes for it were available in the USA as after-market items. I don't know whether Ford ever installed them from the factory here or not.
That latch is fairly easy to replace. Grind/punch or drill the rivets out that hold the remnants in place. Go to a decent hardware store, and buy a suitable size cabinet hinge with loops about a half inch wide, and quarter inch pin. Make sure they are steel. You will just have to see what your hardware store has that comes close in size.
Rather than going to the trouble to make a four skinny loop arrangement (a pain in the---), leave one half inch wide loop whole, and cut the wide loops on both sides of it to about a quarter inch wide. That arrangement will work fine, and look fine as long as you aren't going for high level judging.
Placement is important! The "hinge pieces MUST fall into the steel felley between the inner and outer sides. And the pin MUST set over the one correct end of the split in order for the rim to be serviced for tire changes or repairs. Your current remnants can tell you where the pin should be placed (NOT right over the split or you will do a whole lot of cussing the first time you try to mount a tire onto the rim!). The end without the valve stem MUST be able to slip over the inner side of the end with the valve stem.
You may go to the trouble (not really difficult) to rivet the new hinge pieces into place like the original was done. Or, if you prefer, brazing the pieces into place can also work fine. Just be very careful to get the pieces properly centered either way.
A simple steel pin of proper size is all that is needed to hold it in place (usually). When the rim and tire are mounted on the wheel, the pin is trapped between the sides inside the felley. Usually once the tire is mounted and aired up to proper pressure, the loops of the hinge pieces will bind enough that the pin probably won't fall out. The main reason so many of these type latches are broken, is because the pins usually become so stuck that people beat them out with big hammers and punches.
And a safety comment. Don't worry too much about these latches. Once a tire is mounted, and properly aired up? As long as the ends line up fairly well? Even with no latch, it is nearly impossible to force the rim split apart. I ran my first speedster for about three years on three rims that had NO latch on them. One of them, the ends did not line up well, and I TRIED to knock it apart with about 25 psi in it, and no way was it popping loose. 25 psi times about a 60 inch circumference? Puts a couple hundred pounds of pressure pressing those ends together, held in place by the tire. It doesn't want to move.
Over the years, I haven't had many 21 inch balloon type wheels tires or rims (too modern for me?), but I have had a few. One rim I had years ago had the hinge-like loops for a latch, but it did not have the holes for the rim spreader. Whether it was a USA oddity, after-market or what? I don't have the answer. Another rim I had years ago, did have the holes for the rim spreader, however had one of the common USA type latch mechanisms. I don't remember now whether it had the twist lever latch or the bolt type, but it wasn't the hinge-like loops.
The mouse-trap rim spreader and rims with holes for it were available in the USA as after-market items. I don't know whether Ford ever installed them from the factory here or not.
That latch is fairly easy to replace. Grind/punch or drill the rivets out that hold the remnants in place. Go to a decent hardware store, and buy a suitable size cabinet hinge with loops about a half inch wide, and quarter inch pin. Make sure they are steel. You will just have to see what your hardware store has that comes close in size.
Rather than going to the trouble to make a four skinny loop arrangement (a pain in the---), leave one half inch wide loop whole, and cut the wide loops on both sides of it to about a quarter inch wide. That arrangement will work fine, and look fine as long as you aren't going for high level judging.
Placement is important! The "hinge pieces MUST fall into the steel felley between the inner and outer sides. And the pin MUST set over the one correct end of the split in order for the rim to be serviced for tire changes or repairs. Your current remnants can tell you where the pin should be placed (NOT right over the split or you will do a whole lot of cussing the first time you try to mount a tire onto the rim!). The end without the valve stem MUST be able to slip over the inner side of the end with the valve stem.
You may go to the trouble (not really difficult) to rivet the new hinge pieces into place like the original was done. Or, if you prefer, brazing the pieces into place can also work fine. Just be very careful to get the pieces properly centered either way.
A simple steel pin of proper size is all that is needed to hold it in place (usually). When the rim and tire are mounted on the wheel, the pin is trapped between the sides inside the felley. Usually once the tire is mounted and aired up to proper pressure, the loops of the hinge pieces will bind enough that the pin probably won't fall out. The main reason so many of these type latches are broken, is because the pins usually become so stuck that people beat them out with big hammers and punches.
And a safety comment. Don't worry too much about these latches. Once a tire is mounted, and properly aired up? As long as the ends line up fairly well? Even with no latch, it is nearly impossible to force the rim split apart. I ran my first speedster for about three years on three rims that had NO latch on them. One of them, the ends did not line up well, and I TRIED to knock it apart with about 25 psi in it, and no way was it popping loose. 25 psi times about a 60 inch circumference? Puts a couple hundred pounds of pressure pressing those ends together, held in place by the tire. It doesn't want to move.
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- Posts: 5205
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: What kind of rim
Wayne makes a very good point about placing the two halves of the latch over the split in the rim. The pin must be offset to one side of the split. Otherwise it is impossible to re assemble the two halves when the tyre is fitted over the collapsed rim.
I would check out a door hinge off a 26-7 T as a replacement latch.
Allan from down under.
I would check out a door hinge off a 26-7 T as a replacement latch.
Allan from down under.
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- Posts: 4308
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Tomaso
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
- Location: Longbranch, WA
- MTFCA Number: 14972
- MTFCI Number: 15411
- Board Member Since: 2001
Re: What kind of rim
That rim does have the small holes for the spreader.
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- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
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- Posts: 271
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- First Name: Dick
- Last Name: Cruickshank
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 Depot Hack, 1916 Touring
- Location: Angier NC
Re: What kind of rim
I may be wrong but this looks like a standard Kelsey rim.
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- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
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- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: What kind of rim
Dick, you are most likely correct. All out Canadian sourced cars have Kelsey wheels. I missed seeing the holes either side of the split too. These are typical of Canadian rims. In all my years I have only ever seen one of the special tools used to open and lose the rim for tyre mounting.
A close look at the remainder of the lock shows the need to set the two halves off centre. A 26-7 open car door hinge, with one of the five loops cut off, is about the right size as a replacement.
Allan from down under.
A close look at the remainder of the lock shows the need to set the two halves off centre. A 26-7 open car door hinge, with one of the five loops cut off, is about the right size as a replacement.
Allan from down under.
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- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:29 pm
- First Name: David
- Last Name: Wilson
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Canadian Touring
- Location: Saint John, NB, Canada
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Re: What kind of rim
Looks exactly like the rims on my Canadian 27 Touring. Mine are marked on the inside Kelsey Canada. You might see the same on yours if you look closely. Some of my latches were damaged like yours and it is an easy fix as others have described. Still looking for one of the spreaders that fit these wheels. One additional work of caution, if in fact you have a Canadian car/wheels, and want to rebuild the wood spoked wheels, the spokes sold by the vendors will not fit as the spokes for the Canadian wheels are a little different length and have a different way of fitting together at the hub. Bill Callimer made the spokes for mine and did a great job of rebuilding my wheels. You will find other differences if you have a Canadian car-rear seat cushion size (Touring), horn button, thin radiator and matching "long" fan pulley, etc. as well as the usual Robertson screws. Good luck!
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Topic author - Posts: 85
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:00 am
- First Name: George
- Last Name: Loranger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 touring
- Location: Grafton ND
- MTFCA Number: 32239
Re: What kind of rim
Thanks for all the hints. I think I will go the hardware store to look for hinge
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- First Name: Charlie
- Last Name: Coleman
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Re: What kind of rim
Hello George, I have several rims with part of the catch broken off too!
I was also going to fabricate a piece from a hinge. I hope the photos are attached
that show half of the catch that remains on my 21” rims. I may need to shim up a hinge
or bend the hinge into alignment with the other side. In your case since your adding both sides of the catch you can probably drill out the rivets and replace them with flat head machine screws on the tire side and a nut on the fellow/rim side as long as it does not protrude too high.
too far
I was also going to fabricate a piece from a hinge. I hope the photos are attached
that show half of the catch that remains on my 21” rims. I may need to shim up a hinge
or bend the hinge into alignment with the other side. In your case since your adding both sides of the catch you can probably drill out the rivets and replace them with flat head machine screws on the tire side and a nut on the fellow/rim side as long as it does not protrude too high.
too far
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- Posts: 144
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:53 pm
- First Name: Charlie
- Last Name: Coleman
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 TT C Cab Stakebed Truck
- Location: Redwood Valley, Ca.
- MTFCA Number: 51002
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: What kind of rim
Sent you a PM if you want any photos of the hinge I’m using.