MTFCA Forum

A week or so ago, our 1914 T touring made a funny noise while riding around town. I couldn't place the noise, so I didn't worry about it. Inspecting the rear wheel last evening, I see that the band on our accessory brakes (LOCKWOOD or LOCK GOOD brand) has snapped in two. These brakes have served us very well since 1969. When adjusted correctly we can lock up the rear wheels going forward or reverse when used with the stock transmission brake. I relined these in 2009 with the McMaster Carr green woven brake material mentioned in other posts. I have been stopping trouble free since then. Up until now. Inspection of the broken band shows wear down through most of the lining, but the band itself just snapped tearing the remaining lining apart. See photos, below.

The brackets on the band can be removed and reinstalled (welded and/or riveted) on a new band --- IF --- I can determine what sort of steel these bands should be made of. They have some springiness so I imagine there is something specific I need to be looking for. It does not look like any of the vendors have replacement bands of this sort available -- except as part of a set of new Rocky Mountain or similar accessory brakes. I note that this sort of exterior brake system was used on other cars of the period. One brand I am familiar with is Royal Equipment Duplex Brakes (later Raybestos) which are on our 1912 Michigan. Any ideas where to obtain springy band material? Or some other ideas? Thanks in advance - Craig in Carlsbad CA

Ouch! Hopefully you can weld and patch the two pieces back together to work good as new.

Transmission bands!! Use a non-demountable preferred. If the same width, you got lucky.
I think the metal on RM brakes are plain sheet metal. You arent going to find this thru a supplier.


Would not trust a weld.

Tempered, blue-steel banding would be a good design choice.

https://www.mcmaster.com/blue-tempered- ... ess~0-062/

I don't know how thick you need, so I picked 1/16" out of thin air as an example

Transmission bands are a good idea -- but alas, they are 2" too short at only 24" in length. The brake band is 26". Also the thickness of the transmission band is .0747 (14 gauge steel). The broken brake band material looks to be about .0825 or nearly 13 gauge. I'm sure the thinner material would work, but I'm going to continue to see if I can find something closer. Worse comes to worse, I'll simply butt weld at the break and weld a patch over the outside for strength. Then re-line the old band. I'm going to continue to look. And dang it, the McMaster blue spring steel dimensions don't seem to come close enough. So that's the broke brake story so far.

14 gauge mild steel can be formed and tempered. I don't think you need a high temper for that application. Forming the band, drilling as needed, then heating it and quenching it in oil might be sufficient. No temper beyond what forming it would impart might be enough. Springiness can be added by slip-rolling or carefully hammering the band. Since the mechanism has springs to expand the band away from the drum, very little or no temper should suffice. I would not weld the old band or do anything that would make a stiff place in it. Adding something like a link at the break might be a better choice than attempting to weld it.

You should have had Car Shield. Quit hanging up on them man!

Just had to plug that in..., LMAO!

Hank

.083 is pretty dang close to .0825, I think!

https://www.mcmaster.com/blue-tempered- ... ess~0-083/

Hey Scott - Um..... yeah .085 is pretty close to .083 -- silly me, I didn't see the sheet material - only the strip material.

.0825 vs. .083 --- all thumbs today.

Craig

be sure to consult a local steel shop about shearing prior to purchasing and make sure they can/will shear it for you.

Craig,
I would really be interested in seeing pictures of the mounting side of these accessory brakes and also how they are actuated if you don't mind posting some additional detail shots. Thanks!

Last time I had to replace/make a brake band I just used available "strap" iron/steel, the right thickness from my local supplier, then went down to the local fix it shop that had a roller and had them roll it to the right diameter, then I riveted all the bracketry off the old band onto the new one, new lining installed and .....DONE!

Ed aka #4

Hello Shannon -
Here is a photo of the mounting side of my LOCKWOOD or LOCK GOOD accessory brakes. The casting is sufficiently blurry that It is impossible to tell which of those brand names is correct. Maybe someone else has a set with a clear casting that shows if the letter is a "W" or a "G". I've welded the band and added a reinforced area on the outside covering the weld. If it pops, I'll just move up to building a new set with materials such as suggested by others. Now I'm waiting for rivets. The plan is to JB weld the green brake lining material on to the band and then rivet it in place. That is what I did back in 2009 and It worked flawlessly until the band broke - tearing the still remaining lining with it. (see original post) Thanks, Craig in Carlsbad CA

Epoxy's typically go soft when they get hot. I suggest you Test before you use it to bond brake linings. I have used JB to repair pan cracks. The flexing? of the pan loosened some. May not be ideal on a flexing brake band. Experiment before you go all in.

Maybe it's just another of the dozens of uses for the Famous Permatex ULTRA BLACK!?! It withstands pretty high temps. I've always simply riveted the lining like the transmission bands. Years ago I did have some professionally bonded. Not sure what they use?

I used some 1 1/4" x 1/8 (I think) hot rolled flat stock when I made my front wheel brake copies of the McNerney/Big Four. It's very easy to shape the metal around a can or bottle of the right size.

Hello Speedytinc & SurfCityGene -
With respect to JB Weld to bind the lining to the brake band. It works great. I did this back in 2009 and the surface stayed bonded without failure. Please also note that the bands are riveted as well. So it's belt and suspender style. Basically the JB Weld (standard stuff ) provides a continuous adhesive surface on the band, whereas the rivets hold the lining at 6 or so separate points. I have not experienced any lining creep or delaminating. Indeed, the heat one would expect to be generated on brake bands (along with flexing) doesn't seem to be high enough to cause a failure of adhesion -when used in conjunction with rivets. At least, that is my experience - your mileage may vary.

Craig Correll wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:59 pm

I've welded the band and added a reinforced area on the outside covering the weld.

That is NOT a good idea. It's your brakes for goodness sake... fix them right.

You know, I earlier mentioned shearing...thinking about it, if I was making the band out of sheet material, I think now that I'd cut it with a cut-off wheel and bring to width with a belt sander and fixture. That way, no stress would be induced into the material, and no cold forming of the one edge would occur.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:05 pm

Craig Correll wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:59 pm

I've welded the band and added a reinforced area on the outside covering the weld.

That is NOT a good idea. It's your brakes for goodness sake... fix them right.

The steel band is essentially in tension — you don’t think a butt weld and overlap reinforcement is going to pull apart?