MTFCA Forum

Please forgive my ignorance, I’m new to Model T’s. I have a 1925 Fordor that I’m working on. I have had a hard time finding decent motor and transmission, today I came across a decent combination. My assumption is that the motor and transmission is pre 1919 as there isn’t a spot for a starter motor which is fine by me I’d rather crank start anyway. There is no number stamped on the motor so I can’t track the year of the motor by serial number. My question is will an older motor work in my car?

Welcome to the group. Where the number is usually stamped on the block does it look like the number was ground off ? I believe there were some motors made for other uses and after production of the Model T that did not have serial numbers but I have never seen one. Are the three pedals on the transmission shaped the same or are the two outer pedals different than the center pedal? Any pictures?
To answer your question….yes the motor and transmission should fit just fine.

The simple answer is yes most T parts are interchangable. Question is the car you have Titled by the engine number? if so you can stamp that # on the new engine. if it is titled by a state issued number then there should be no issue. I too like to crank my T. If you use a starter no one notices. If you hand crank it everyone notices. the harder it is to start with the crank the more people stop to watch. after twenty or thirty pulls you get applause. Once went to get gas and started the firetruck * or 10 times before I got toi go home.
Craig.

Thanks for the reply’s thus far. I’ve attached photos of where the Serial Number should be stamped and of the peddle assembly. Washington State titles the vehicle by the year it was built and they have titled this as a 1925.

Guess I missed a photo.

Mark_Hulst wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:44 pm

Please forgive my ignorance, I’m new to Model T’s. I have a 1925 Fordor that I’m working on. I have had a hard time finding decent motor and transmission, today I came across a decent combination. My assumption is that the motor and transmission is pre 1919 as there isn’t a spot for a starter motor which is fine by me I’d rather crank start anyway. There is no number stamped on the motor so I can’t track the year of the motor by serial number. My question is will an older motor work in my car?

Hold on pilgrim! Pre 19 means NO GENERATOR. Thats not something easily remedied. Post 18 motors are plentiful. #'s can be changed, as can casting dates, starters can be added or left off. Consider your old age a decade down the road.

I had a customer with a bad block, 1925 coincidently. He found & had a new block built. 6K later. Brought it over to assemble. Surprise - 15 block. I did set his magneto to charge a battery, but the hole deal was to patch a HUGE mistake.

Just to the rear of that serial number pad is USUALLY a motor casting date, that can tell you a lot.

The size and shape of the serial number embossment and what appears to be a circular casting date marker indicate that the block is likely a 1917, 1918, or 1919. And most likely a 1919 as most 1918 and earlier blocks had the straight casting date. There were a few TT truck and later replacement blocks into 1920 without the generator, however Ford phased the no generator blocks out rather quickly to simplify inventory control. The round casting date continued on generator blocks through much of 1921, and was discontinued on USA blocks soon after that. Canadian blocks continued to have casting dates, and circular, for several more years.

Since your T is a 25 I would find a T engine that has a generator and starter setup. That would be an engine that would be more correct for your car and in the long run you’ll be glad you did. They are fairly plentiful.
It would be an engine from 1920 thru 1925. Your T is setup electrically that way if it still pretty much still together.

Yes the earlier engines would fit but it would be more trouble to “backdate” the car since you have a later car.

Most T parts will interchange but only to a point. As they improved things began to slowly change for the better. Adding a starter and generator engine was one of them.
Ford added a starter for a reason and after hand cranking a stubborn T for a while you’ll begin to understand why.

There might be many owners of older cars who would like to buy your engine, and you might find a good running later engine or a good block and rebuild it. I wouldn't recommend that you place the older block in your car unless it is a stop gap to allow you to enjoy driving your car until you can find a good later engine to install in your car.
The reason I recommend this is resale value of the car. Some day you or your heirs might want to sell your car and the prospective buyer would be turned off by a car without a generator or starter, even if it runs good.
Norm

Mark - there is a number of T guys up your way that are knowledgeable regarding just what's what with your T - I'm a couple hours South near Gig Harbor if you'd want to take a ride down sometime.

1922 seems to have been a year of transition from the two man top to the one man top. The windshield also changed and the radiator changed from the low radiator to high radiator. So It is quite possible that some of the plants used up their existing parts before making the change, so there were both styles being sold at the same time. And some states dated their model year from the year it was first sold so toward the end of the year there would have been some of the next year models being sold and some of the last year styles being sold. I know a friend who has what he calls a 22 and it has the later type top and windshield. My 22 roadster has a low radiator, a steel firewall and a 2 man top. My friends 22 touring on right. Notice he has extended the windshield posts because he is quite tall.

The Casting Date Circle appears to have been mutilated too.

Mark_Hulst wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:44 pm

Please forgive my ignorance, I’m new to Model T’s. I have a 1925 Fordor that I’m working on. I have had a hard time finding decent motor and transmission, today I came across a decent combination. My assumption is that the motor and transmission is pre 1919 as there isn’t a spot for a starter motor which is fine by me I’d rather crank start anyway. There is no number stamped on the motor so I can’t track the year of the motor by serial number. My question is will an older motor work in my car?

You have presented somewhat of a puzzle. The Model T is titled as a 1925, body is a Fordor and came with a non-starter engine. So accordingly it is a combination that didn't make it to production. Its not unusual (maybe expected) for engines to have been replaced sometime before it became desirable to keep things "correct". So as has been said, many parts are upward and downward compatible, engines are as well. Given that you are in Washington I am surprised that your having trouble locating an engine. I would seek a 1925 or at least a starter engine that as long as it can actually be crank started. Based on the appearance of the block where the numbers are, I expect that the block is heavily pitted, if so there is no point trying to figure out the year. The first thing is to confirm the year of your Model T and then choose an engine whose date fits with that profile. Add pictures to this discussion: front and rear axles , body etc.

I have several engines from that era that will work plus lots of pars. Ted 503 728 3476 I live close to Longview Wash.

Mark_Hulst wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:44 pm

Please forgive my ignorance, I’m new to Model T’s. I have a 1925 Fordor that I’m working on.......

Sounds like you found a source for both an engine and parts.