MTFCA Forum

I called Lang's this morning to order a new (rebuilt) starter. They told me that these are on backorder and it may be well after the new year before they can ship. From the way she spoke, it probably won't be any time soon. I'm glad that my existing starter still sorta kinda works. The starter drive is on backorder as well.

John, I think that’s why Henry left the crank handle on the Model T after electric starters were offered!

John send your starter out for re-build to Buckeye auto electric, they rebuilt both my starter and generator.

BuckeyeAutoElectric.com 547 Hoyt st. Painesville OH 44077 1-800-USA-5561

There is a gentleman on eBay that rebuilds starters and generators. I got one from him a month ago. Cheaper than the vendors too

My starter still works - kinda. The battery is new, the starter cables are good, as are the connections. The issue is that it cranks really slowly. It almost always starts, but I'm sick of it.

John, Have you checked the linkage on your left pedal lately. I was having a similar problem with my starter and found my ‘25 Coupe was not adjusted for the best possible neutral. After adjusting the linkage and bolt the starter motor spins much easier.

Just for info: the parts required for a real rebuild, meaning a rewound and turned armature, new field coils, remanufactured brush plate, new bearings, new drive gear all come to around $275. Add abrasive blasting to the housing along with a quality paint job, and you must get around $400 for the job to be remotely worth the rebuilder's time. Even at that, no one is putting their kid through college on the $$ that remain.

Buying a generator or starter off of eBay for $175-$200 or so, is not a rebuild - it is a repair, and I can state with certainty that the most expensive thing in the generator is the spray paint and friction tape holding the old wires together. Ironically, because of this, the profit margin is VERY high to the repairman, so these things abound.

I no longer perform this service, but it frustrates me no end that the eBay guy(s) pull in so many unsuspecting clients. They are the primary reason so many T folks are convinced generators are not worth the trouble and end up with alternators. The ironic thing is, they'll spend good money after bad on eBay for a substandard job and then pay the equivalent to a GOOD generator on an alternator, so the result is, they spent more, trying to go cheap than if they'd simply gotten a quality generator in the first place.

For those who buy these things from eBay, I wish you the best, but do not condemn the technology when it does not last. It's not the technology, it's the repair that was not up to it.

Scott...excellent info and advice. Like they say, let the buyer beware. That said, and I've said too many times , I love my new alternator I got from Snyders.

FWIW, I've never had issues starting a vehicle with a 6 volt system, even if the engine is well worn, as long as the electrical parts are in good shape.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:35 pm

FWIW, I've never had issues starting a vehicle with a 6 volt system, even if the engine is well worn, as long as the electrical parts are in good shape.

Same here, proper gauge wires from the battery to the switch and the switch to the starter post. Same thing with the ground to frame and all connections clean and tight.
The first things to check are the wires and battery condition, unless the starter is just done, these starters are pretty forgiving.

The fellow on Ebay charges $350 for a rebuilt starter, $375 on generators, has close to 9,000 sales and a 100% positive rating so he might be legit.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/ahs0106/m.html ... 3561.l2562

He is out of Buda, Texas so maybe Terry Woods can drive over and check him out.

I’ll bet you a dollar NOBODY rewinds an armature

https://www.modeltford.com/item/5120R.aspx and my stock shelf say otherwise

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:54 pm

https://www.modeltford.com/item/5120R.aspx and my stock shelf say otherwise

With all due respect Scott, that's a generator armature. The topic here is starters. With their heavy busbar windings I don't believe they would get rewound, but I could be mistaken.

Jerry

you are absolutely correct and right to point that out. And with particular emphasis on Tim's point, he is right that there is no one rewinding starter armatures and with the "hairpin" style winding, there is absolutely no need to.

too much on my mind and too little attention paid to the initial posting resulted in seriously erroneous and misdirection on my part

my apologies to all and a "thank you" to Jerry for pointing out my error(s) made in my posts.

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:24 pm

Jerry

you are absolutely correct and right to point that out. And with particular emphasis on Tim's point, he is right that there is no one rewinding starter armatures and with the "hairpin" style winding, there is absolutely no need to.

too much on my mind and too little attention paid to the initial posting resulted in seriously erroneous and misdirection on my part

my apologies to all and a "thank you" to Jerry for pointing out my error(s) made in my posts.

Yer' welcome. We've all been there... proves we're still human.

Jerry, get it right…, old humans!

Humbled and Be Fuddled in Tin-A-See

Damn one day I am going to spell Tennessee correctly!

Or call Ron Patterson and ask when he is doing a bunch of starters.

Ron is no longer doing starters or generators.

How to spell "Tennessee": Load a shotgun with Ns and Es and Ss and let fly.

Hank, Tennesse is a four letter word?

Brent Mize wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:43 pm

Ron Patterson is no longer doing starters or generators.

Correct as I understand it... however I am rebuilding both starters and generators now as I finally completed my move to Idaho (what a royal pain) and put my shop back together. Its better than ever so that's a good thing.

I've now done over 100 of these units and only had one warranty replacement generator when a winding broke and came off the commutator. There inevitably will be more as I do more as this stuff is OLD and sometimes old things just break. Kinda like us.

My rebuilds vary depending on what folks want and what they can afford.

For example, I just sold a generator w/ new filed coils and a rewrapped armature for $390. It's beautiful.
My gens w/ rewrapped coils and fully reconditioned armatures are $275.
My starters w/ new filed coils are $390.
My starters w/ rewrapped filed coils are $350 - I finally found insulation tape I can trust on starters.
I do 12v starter conversions for $500. It's very tedious & precise work and I use new field coils, so the cost is higher. But they work well.

Done properly, there's no reason these units won't last for several more years. If they're going to fail, generally they do so in the first few months which is why I offer and 90 day no questions asked warranty. Heck if one failed after a year I'd still replace it. Its just who I am.

I can tell you I'm certainly not getting rich doing this anytime soon. If you factor in the time need to fully clean and disassemble those nasty cores, bead blast everything, *correctly* rebuild brush plates, rewrap field coils (which is my least favorite thing), remove rabbit bearings, turn armatures, straighten shafts, replace nose bearings, lathe work, assemble and paint, it sometimes can be upwards of 5 hours of work per unit over several days, not to mention adding the not so insignificant cost of new brushes, sealed bearings insulators, screws, washers, insulating tape, paint, rivets, etc. I'm sure I'll have to raise my prices soon as suppliers are increasing their prices for replacement parts across the board.

Add to it that the parts from these units are 100+ years old, and sometimes some core parts just need to go in the garbage can even after spending the time reconditioning it. I just spent 5 hours on a generator armature a few days go. A stubborn one but in the end I finally won the battle. Nothing I'd sell at this point, but it's going in my car trailer as my spare. The end shaft ended up being bent (somebody dropped it??) and I had to weld the shaft and then turn it on the lathe to get it true again. of course my weld puddle touched the key channel, so I had to spend time to clean that up as well. But I saved another armature from inevitible the T boneyard.

You can see pics of my work in the classified section. I do sub a couple parts that I haven't found a source for. Yet. Specifically the square terminal lug on the generator post which I'm good at saving and reusing, and the little domed #6 screws on the generator brush plate. I use flat screws. They work fine but you'd lose points in a judging competition.

And I use modern aluminum pop rivets to attach starter generator brush plates and insulators. Again, not 100% original like peened brass rivets, but they save A TON of time and work perfectly.

I do all this because I love working with my hands in my shop, and my EE tendencies are completely satisfied by doing these rebuilds. And I pretty much get to use most of my big, old tools which is a hoot. And I get to give something back to this amazing hobby for so many of you folks.

I'll keep doing this as long as my hands hold up, and there are enough useable core parts out there. If anyone wants to donate useable cores, I'm all in! I already offered to buy all of Chaffins starter/gen stuff, but he never responded.

AdminJeff

MichaelPawelek wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:16 am

John, Have you checked the linkage on your left pedal lately. I was having a similar problem with my starter and found my ‘25 Coupe was not adjusted for the best possible neutral. After adjusting the linkage and bolt the starter motor spins much easier.

Thanks for mentioning that, Michael. My T has no tendency to creep forward when in neutral, so I assumed the neutral adjustment was OK. Boy was I wrong! I jacked up the left rear wheel and with the car in neutral I could barely turn the wheel. Looks like I will get out the bible and do a total adjustment on the lever and the pedal. When I bought the T I found some sloppy clutch linkage, but didn't think much about it - although I bought some linkage parts from Lang's in case I ever was working in that area; I'll see if I can find them and perhaps dig a little deeper then just an adjustment. I'll still replace the starter if Lang's ever gets one in though; my existing starter is probably original - ay age 95 it probably does need a little love.

You will have to compensate for the sloppy worn holes in the low pedal & clutch shaft lever. Oversize clevis pins are an option untill you ever remove the H/H & can weld the holes back to the original size.