Model T fan assembly

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Tmodelt
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Model T fan assembly

Post by Tmodelt » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:36 pm

During Spring cleaning of the garage, I found a complete fan assembly. The blades (4 individual pieces) are riveted onto a brass sheave with 4 rivets each. I have only found one photo through a supplier that lists it as an 09 -16. Is this correct? Any idea as to value? Most of what I have been finding again have been in storage for 35+ years. I have attached photos below. Thanks.
Back view
Back view
Side view
Side view
Front view
Front view


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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by John kuehn » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:46 pm

There might be Ford part number on the fan arm. That might give an idea of what year it is.
Looks like Ford is on one side but what about the other side.


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Tmodelt
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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Tmodelt » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:25 pm

Fan bracket is iron and similar to the brass one listed in the Lamb's catalogue that fits 11 - 16. The number that I find cast in it appear to be 7604A. Any guesses?

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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by George Mills » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:02 pm

According to work by others, I think your number might be wrong.

T-604 was the fan arm bracket factory number.

According to Bruce McCalley stuff, the arm was always drop forged "E" steel, so the bronze reference may not be accurate in the catalogue...just that nobody was going to set up a drop forge for a repair, so casting it out of a strong bronze was an easier avenue?

T-604 B came into existence for the 17/18 model year - 25 model year.

So the arm would have been '17 or less...Not sure where the 'A' comes in. Sometimes Ford used the A suffix right from drawing issue, other times the base number was a default 'A' without calling it such. You'd probably have to send for the record of changes card to see the background on evolution.
Last edited by George Mills on Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:09 pm

That fan bracket is correct for mid-'11 thru '16
That hub with blades is correct for '09-'16
That grease fitting (in brass) is correct for '09-'16, though that style was used through '21 as a steel item.

It is the bracket that dates the entire assembly as far as I am concerned, though individual components could be broken up for a wider range of use.
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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Kerry » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:13 pm

1912 to 1916 arm and bronze hub to 1915 with some mix into 1916 with the change to iron.


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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Kerry » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:24 pm

Actually, reading up some more on the arm, it should still have the spring knob as well as the boss until 14/15. The arm with just the boss is 15/16.


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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:29 pm

Thanks Kerry...I stand corrected...fan went from bronze to iron officially July 17, 1915 with bronze stock to be used up, so depending on where the car was assembled and who had what stock, it doesn't officially carry to '16 but isn't necessarily "wrong" if on a '16, though it would likely only be early on for the model year. I should have looked this up before I answered. My '16 has a pretty good provenance, and is a later '16 with a bronze hub which may or may not be original...I always thought it was, given what I know of it's history.

And you're right on the arm...we're both reading the Encyclopedia at the same time, I think.
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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Original Smith » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:20 pm

It appears your hump in the middle is pretty much gone, so for me, that would be a negative. I've seen the spring tit on original cars as late as 1915.


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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by James_Lyons-WV » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:47 am

My unrestored 1915 touring is a very early transition car (jan 15). It does not have the spring bump.

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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:40 am

The bent arm was used into 1916 with the brass radiator. The riveted fan blades and steel hub with replaceable bushings was used 1917 to 1920.
https://www.modeltford.com/item/3974-4A.aspx
Before 1917 the hub was brass with no replaceable bushings.
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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Kerry » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:04 pm

I usually find the encyclopedia's information a little more factual than that of the parts vendors descriptions.


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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Tmodelt » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:10 pm

The fan is riveted onto a brass hub/flange. It is the only one that I have run across like this as I am into the "new/modern" Model Ts.

All 3 of mine would be considered "Frankenstein" cars. I was recently informed that my 23 Roadster had incorrect wheels and tires.

My 26 Boattail will make every purist cringe. Low radiator, Chevy OHV, Model A wire wheels, pressurized oil system, twin downdraft V8 carbs, 12 forward speeds and lowered 7 inches.


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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Allan » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:42 am

As others have indicated, the lack of spring boss puts the arm at the later end of the time frame. The depth of the ribs in the blades also takes it out of the early time bracket. The 09-12 ,and perhaps later, fan blades have a much deeper and more well defined ribs pressed into the blades.

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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Terry_007 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:40 pm

The brass hub fans sufffer from a couple of problems - first there should be a slight crown on the brass hub itself, and those are often worn off to a near flat surface completely around the circumference of the bub. The second problem tends to be the bushing in the hub itself. While the can be rebushed, it still rides on the iron shaft. Thast's why the grease fitting was there-to keep that shaft lubricated. Most everybody I know who runs their cars uses the upgraded fan assembly with bearings instead of just a bushing. Runs smooth and doesn't need much attention. My old fan has been a wall-hanger for many years now.
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Re: Model T fan assembly

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:55 pm

As an aside, the bronze fan hub can be rebushed, though it is a labor of love. Of the ones I've done, the soldered in rear bushing is usually badly off center relative to the soldered face and the hub sometimes only has a partially machined receiving surface and is often still raw casting. I have yet to figure out exactly how they assembled/machined them, but it certainly appears that the machining occured after the parts were soldered together, leaving no obvious datum for repair. It's all but mandatory to match mark the rear bushing to the hub prior to removal, or the thing will never be right again.

As far as ball bearing vs greased bronze, I have no dog in that fight, but can say that the greased bronze will run many, many miles if serviced properly. Of my 4 cars, two take grease, one takes oil, and one has been updated with ball bearings, just for my own curiosity. The ball bearing hub that I received had slop along the spin axis that required a spacer to keep from clanging back and forth along the shaft, and had no distance piece between the bearings which is highly desireable on an assembly like this. Without one, it is impossible to get correct preload on the bearings. I remedied both situations.

For folks who do not know what preload is or wonder what it accomplishes: https://www.bearingtips.com/preload-nec ... lications/
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