MTFCA Forum

Put new front wheel bearings on my 1927 coupe. How "tight" should they be? I haven't put the wheels on yet. Should the hubs turn real easy by hand or should there be a fair amount of drag?























shou

Have you done a modern car?

That is covered in the (Model T) Ford Service Manual, paragraph 66

It is book "T-1" at every supplier and needed to be in your library last week.

There is hardly a question which will come up during your work which will not be answered within its pages.

While waiting for your copy to arrive- http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/servicema ... mcolor.pdf

You should also look at the credits. http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/default.htm
A lot of familiar forum names.

Like a modern wheel bearing. With the wheel on the hub, tighten the outer bearing as you turn the wheel by hand. When you feel the wheel binding up, back off a 1/2 turn on the bearing. A properly tightend hub will not spin when rotated, but it will turn with light resistance.
Left and right bearings are threaded differently. The correct spindle threading is to unscrew the bearing when the vehicle is moving forward. If not, you have the spindles reversed on the axle. Right spindle should be left hand threads, left spindle should be right hand threads.

I do have the service manual. Paragraph 66 did not give me what I wanted; that is, how much "drag" should I feel when turning the hub.

It didn't give you what you wanted; it gave you what you needed, and nowhere does it use the word "drag".

I've watched your progress with interest like everyone else, particularly enjoying the fact that you and your son are working together on this, and do wish you the very best on your project, but based on your generally doing things completely unconnected to the advice you've received on a myriad of issues, I have come to the conclusion that you are simply going to do what you are going to do.

If seeking advice, you might try taking it, but if on the other hand, you are simply seeking validation, you should just say it, as there are plenty of folks who will help with that, too.

When there is a documented "right way" to do something, and then there is every other possible way, letting the Forum know from the get-go which type of information you're interested in will limit annoying answers that actually address the issue.

The answer really is there should be no tightness involved. Tight bearings will produce heat and promote premature wear.
I set mine up with just a smidgeon of play when the wheel is rocked top to bottom. To achieve this takes a little time. You need a couple of wooden wedges to jam between the back of the spindle body and the axle so that any play in the kingpins is taken out of the equation. Then wind the bearings in, leaving a little play. When you tighten the nut you may remove the play, so you should undo it and wind the bearing out a bit and repeat. The idea is to be able to feel a tiny bit of play when the wheel is rocked top to bottom. With play, you have no tightness, no heat generation out of the ordinary, and no unwarranted wear.
Or, you can do it another way.

Allan from down under.

Most times, when you hit that place that “snugs”up the front wheel outer bearing just right, with proper tension, test it a few times.

The wheel, when rotated, will revolve several times , then slowly back and forth, and come to rest at the same spot. That is where the wheel/tire is heaviest, this test will provide info on your bearing adjustment.

Model t and anything with drum front brakes, the bearings run loose compared to anything with disc brakes. Model t and drum are allowed to run loose to the point of having slight movement when the wheel is moved top to bottom or side to side-not much but a little. Disc brakes can’t because movement would push the piston back and cause a soft pedal the first stroke, until the piston and pads are in full contact. Ball bearings do not need preload on them either. Too much can split a race.

Since you have probably have fresh grease in there, yes, there will be a slight amount of what you call drag, but after you drive it, that will go away.

Front wheel bearings should have at least .001 inch endplay and not any tightness. This is true with any grease lubricated tapered roller bearing. Preloaded tapered bearings can be lubricated with oil. Preloaded Ball bearings can be oil or grease lubricated. The best way to adjust the front bearings is to use what is called "The educated nut", which allows for a fine adjustment.

The accurate way to measure the looseness is with a dial indicator.

Most modern cars use an integrated preloaded ball bearing in the front wheel and in rear wheel applications.

Art Mirtes

Now what could you possibly know about bearings, Art ?? Ha ha!

Tim,
My next door neighbor lady used to be the janitor in a bearing factory and she told me all about bearings.

Art Mirtes.

In answer to your question… There should be no “drag”. Wheels should turn easily and, if jacked off the ground and spun by hand, should spin fast and easy for a long time. The bearing should be threaded into the cup and the nut tightened until it snugs up to the bearing face, then backed off slightly to the where the first castle nut groove is aligned with the spindle hole for the cotter key to be inserted in the spindle hole and locked down.

The spindles are threaded in such a way that, when the car moves forward, the bearings loosen so they won’t tighten in the cup and destroy the hub or twist the spindle off. On the right spindle, the bearing tightens by turning counter-clockwise and the left spindle tightens by turning clock-wise. In 1970, when I first started to restore my Model T, one of the first dilemmas I ran into was the difficulty I was having in removing the nut from the right spindle. I had always been taught “righty tighty, lefty loosely” and just could not remove the nut by turning counter-clockwise. I’m surprised I didn’t break the nut or the spindle. My Dad who was born in1926, the same year my T was made and had had worked on Model T’s as a teen, finally helped me find the answer and when I turned the nut clockwise, it came right off. Jim Patrick

Where did you find the inner front wheel bearings new? I have called many of the vendors every other week for the last year trying to get two new inner bearings.

Thank you,

Jeff

Here's some...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294559550462?f ... SwUEZhITNW

If I can’t find them through the Venders, I search Amazon.
I bought two Timken 14120 through Amazon late last year. They show two in stock and more on the way.
https://www.amazon.com/Timken-14120-Tap ... m_rp_18_sc

I agree with Allen and Art, ..... tighten until there is drag, then back off until just a smidge of play (top & bottom in and out). Any tighter causes heat and friction, and heat causes expansion, which will make it even tighter.

Jeff, I called rodavictoriausa.com. The bearings were on their website but they were out. The manager said he would find them for me. Yeah, right. He sent me a text 2 days later with a photo of the bearng with my name on it. I received it 2 days after that. Great customer service.

I shouldn't even chime in here but just to back up those that do it like I have been doing for over 60 years, and most know that I drive my Ts a lot (stock or authentically modified), Right or wrong I tighten new or just repacked bearings snug, then back off until I can spin the wheel and when it slows and rocks back and forth a few times then finally stops, the heaviest part of the wheel is on the bottom (usually the valve stem area) I've never had a wheel bearing problem.

Ed aka #4

YellowTRacer wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:19 pm

I shouldn't even chime in here but just to back up those that do it like I have been doing for over 60 years, and most know that I drive my Ts a lot (stock or authentically modified), Right or wrong I tighten new or just repacked bearings snug, then back off until I can spin the wheel and when it slows and rocks back and forth a few times then finally stops, the heaviest part of the wheel is on the bottom (usually the valve stem area) I've never had a wheel bearing problem.

Ed aka #4

Thank you Ed. Your input is ALWAYS valued and spot-on!

Called one of my bearing sources. They say Timken is out of stock till March.

As others have mentioned, there's 2 on Amazon. Good price too!

https://www.amazon.com/Timken-14120-Tap ... C83&sr=8-1