MTFCA Forum

]

36 more delightful photos! How do you do it?
Thanks so much.
Rich
Oops 40.

I agree Rich...gotta take a Lotta time!! Thanks Tom.
After this "trip" now I'm ready for some...ice cream!!

F451752E-A22A-4386-8DB0-1488F89AA55C.jpeg

Risky business... these guys are carrying a load of oilfield "torpedoes" filled with, or about to be filled with, nitroglycerin. The devices were dropped down wells to "frac" the producing formation to allow better inflow. A lot of guys got killed handling those things.

It seems I have stepped on some toes. It was not intentional. I apologize and tried to remove the picture, but the system will not allow me to do that. I don’t recall where I found the image, but I have never read the HCCT handbook or viewed it. Again, I am sorry for any harm I may have caused and will refrain from any further posting.

What a shame. I love all your photos Tom.

Not the end of the world Tom! Like you, I've never even heard of an HCCT handbook, let along seen one!
No harm done.

Never heard of a HCCT handbook....also, where did HCCT license it from...makes no sense. Also to be petty enough to worry about a photo being used for a not-for-profit reason makes no sense to me. Are the HCCT people legal licensing experts?

Tom- I am sure I can speak for the majority of people on this forum and say we all appreciate these photos and all of the time that it takes to find and post these. It is one of the best parts of reading this forum everyday.

You and your father Hank have done more for the Model T hobby during the last 50+ years than any writer of the HCCT Handbook. If it wasn't for Rootlieb Inc, there would be FAR FEWER Model Ts on the road today. So few of the Model T "newbies" realize the impact you have made on the Model T hobby.

I hope you continue to post your photos. The Forum-and the Model T hobby- will be a lesser place without them and you.

Many of us post images that may have rights to other parties. This is a no no especially if we are receiving money for them. Some of the images have been posted by several sources on the internet without reference to the rights. If I know the source I try to credit them. Where we are using these for reference it seems less crucial that we seek out ownership. I find my photos and paintings popping up all over the internet and expect it. Anything I offer is to share and I'm happy to do it. Others may have reasons for guarding their works and I can respect that.
It would be sad if we can't enjoy the wonderful photos and information that has been shown on this forum. I know there are rules but they are sometimes vague and hard to find. Tom's offerings are most delightful and I would hate to see him not able to share them.
My 2￠ worth.
Rich

Tom,

Thanks for sharing these wonderful vintage photos. The State Fair Entrance photo is of the New York State Fair held in Syracuse over Labor Day Weekend.

Have a great day,

Dom

The young people towards the top: "Four score and seven years ago..."

Two things I recognized from the 2nd picture, Carrigan Glendale, were the Dodge Roadster's funny trunk lid and the Rumley Oil Pull. There was a Rumley not far from Rich B.'s place when I was a kid. I had never seen anything like it.

Both are fun names as a youngster Rich. Dodge and Rumley.

 
Tom,
I reread my post and I can see how it implies that I hold the license to that photo.
I do Not.
I ran across the photo on this very forum while I was putting the HCCT Handbook together.
I traced it to Shorpy and paid a license fee to Shorpy to use it commercially in my book.
No offence taken.
I apologize for the confusion.
Keep doing what you are doing.
I would miss it if it were gone.

FYI : HCCT Handbook is here :
https://modeltstore.myshopify.com/colle ... -patterson

Thank you!

Keep 'em coming Tom. They are a source of great interest to us all. I note the RED CROSS car is very different to US built Fords, indicating that the photo may be European in origin. It is a really neat car.

Allan from down under.

Bob, thank you for your reply. I was unsure what the fuss was about. It does raise an intriguing question though. What is the link between a Chevrolet dealership and a HCCT handbook? The two seem to have little connection to me.

Allan from down under.

Hi Tom, I appreciate all the time and effort you put into posting these beautiful & historic pictures for us to enjoy. Please don't stop! This is one of the best parts of the Forum!

Just my opinion.

Keith

Intellectual property rights has long been a difficult subject. The internet and lawyers have never helped it in any way either.
Apparently Tom R has removed the offending photo. Since the 4 photos per post is in order, I imagine he replaced it with something else?

I have a great deal of respect and admiration for Bob Cascisa, for so many contributions he has made to our model T world! I would never want someone to harm him or his interests in any way.
I also have a great deal of respect and admiration for Tom Rootlieb, for all he and his family have contributed to the hobby! And I also very much enjoy the many (well into the hundreds now! Thousands maybe?) photos that Tom R has posted in the past several years. I would really miss them if they ended. (Thank you Tom R! I don't say it often enough!)

In my lifetime? I think I have met two or three lawyers that I came to respect as human beings. The rest? I would prefer to never be within a hundred yards of. Ever. And I could NEVER be one! (I would shoot myself first!) So, I am not giving legal advice. Just some observations, and opinions, based upon both hobby and work experiences (including the fact we as private cable television system operators had to deal with the intellectual property rights and programming fees required.
Old era photos present some unusual issues. The big problem is that MOST of them, probably 99 percent or more, IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM do not have any copyright attached to them! MOST of them never did. However, IF (big IF again!) the photo has been altered, cropped, brightness, contrast, or tone changed in some minor amount? THAT image MIGHT be copyrighted, by whomever did the alterations. That copyright however may or may not be legitimate depending upon what source that person got the image from, and whether the alterations done were or were not in some way significant. Lawyers live to muddy the waters! That way they can make people pay huge fees to clear up the waters, after they charge a bunch to first muddy it up even more.

A lot of websites on the 'net do copyright their website. That, however, does not mean the copyright actually extends to all the old photos contained within that site (it may or may not depending upon the photo's original source?). New or otherwise recent photos, posted by the original photographer, in a copyrighted forum? Most likely are legitimate copyrights. One is at a greater risk of copyright infringement if one copies and shares photos posted of a major car show than they are sharing old photos. This is especially true if the photo being shared can be found on several websites.
Generally speaking, sharing very old photos found in the open on the internet for educational and not for profit purposes is considered acceptable. I hope that never changes.

I thoroughly enjoy these photo's every time, and keep posting !
But there is a trend in this, i see that a lot of these 'stock photo' companies have a lot of old pictures posted on the WWW, i wonder how they can claim the rights to these, most should be in the public domain, i always understood that copyrights are owned by the original maker up to a limit of seventy years ?
I am in no way a wizard in legal matters, far from it, but more and more i encounter in my searches for 'rabbit holes' that some picture from a hundred years or more ago has an overprinted watermark from Alamy or Shorpy or whatever Stock photo company, do they own our history ?

Wayne beat me to it, darn

Rich Eagle, thanks for the call out of the Rumley Oil Pull tractor! I hadn’t noticed it, but your mention of it brings back memories of going to the Old Threshers Convention in Mt. Pleasant Iowa with my Dad. He also thought “Rumley Oil Pull” was fun to say and I can still see the smile on his face as he said it just about every time he saw one.

Miles, so many things like that come out of these photos. Isn't it terrific?
Thanks for mentioning it.

The 39th picture picture of the 15/16 muddy T was taken on my wife's grandfathers farm near Seward Ill. My son posted this picture on the forum as a guest quite a few years ago. I am glad to see it again. The only problem I have is the fact this car is not in my garage (only in a cleaner state)

Not to hijack thread, but the Rumley commentary is interesting. Here's a link to the results for the first Rumley tested at the Nebraska Tractor Test, It was the 8th tractor of many that have been tested there over the past 100 years, a 13 ton Model E OilPull 30-60. https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/view ... rmuseumlit
During the 35 hour full load test the 30-60 consumed 225 gal of kerosene, an equal amount of water and used 24.5 gallons of lubricating oil. Lubrication was by mechanical oiler and none of the oil was recovered or reused. fwiw, respectfully, jb