MTFCA Forum

I have read post about bending the contacts in the fall timer to fix between
Cylinder timing. I have also read that the magneto fixes this problem I would
Like to hear some opinions on this philip

Philip wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:48 pm

I have read post about bending the contacts in the fall timer to fix between
Cylinder timing. I have also read that the magneto fixes this problem I would
Like to hear some opinions on this philip

I believe, but hope to be corrected if I'm wrong, that the adjustment to the contacts for inter-cylinder timing is more critical when running on battery. Less critical when running on mag. All said, it's probably best to have the timing accurate no matter how you're running.

The Anderson Timer has the contacts adjusted correctly from the factory. Unless they have been loosened, they should remain in alignment. They should not be bent to make an adjustment. Another thing which could affect alignment would be whether the plate on the front of the engine is centered with the camshaft. If it is not centered, it could also cause a timing problem.
The adjustment of the coils to spark at the same current. 1.5amps is important in the timing of the spark also because it is going to take longer to build up the current to a higher level or shorter if a lesser amount. You need enough current to make a good spark. If you are running on battery, the current will start to build up as soon as the contact is made. But on magneto it builds up as the magnet passes the coil ring. And since the voltage is higher on magneto as the speed increases, you will have automatic spark advance, which is not possible on battery. So the position of the spark lever needs to be changed more often on battery. As you increase speed you need to advance the spark. You really only need to change the spark lever position on magneto right after you start the engine and then when going very fast you advance a few notches and when pulling hard such as at low speeds or climbing a hill retard it a bit. Never run the car with the spark retarded all the way.
Norm

Norman,
I feel that you are right when running a model T on a battery (DC), Timer position is critical for equal cylinder firing.
When a model T in running on magneto (AC) the timer only switches on the current from the power generating magneto and the coil is fired by the voltage rise from (V-negative to Voltage +positive and or vice versa)applied the trembler coil. This position is set by the spring tension applied to the coil bridge and vibrating point so that the coil fires at a pre set piston position, I set mine for TDC or (try for tdc). My primary coil(current in amps) range between >1.0 to 1.5 set on a KRW HCCT. This current range seem to changes on different coil boxes. I presume that the coils all vary it specifications due to different manufactures and materials.
A coil fires about 6 to 8 times ( Three negative pulses and Three positive pulses) at each time the timer makes contact per cylinder firing.
I feel that if all the Magnets are located on the flywheel correctly then each coil tested and set on a HCCT must fire the cylinders at equal firing position. I cannot see that the timer position is that critical when running on magneto, sure it has to be in a position to fire the right cylinder at the right time but that is the adjusted rising and falling magneto voltage job...n

I have first hand experience with this. When I drove to the tour in Rapid City, I had a roller timer. This was before I was smart enough to over oil it. It was wearing and needed replacing. I brought a spare with, but people talked up the person who was fabricating new flapper timers ones at the time, he was there, so I bought one. About 100 miles into my trip home I was tired of cleaning the roller timer, so I installed the flapper timer. The car ran on all 4, but ran like crap. I mentioned this to one of the parts vendors when i got home. he suggested using the crank handle as a indicator. Timing was all over the place. The front cover was installed with a centering tool.This car had new field coil, and rebuilt coils, all by leaders in the field. Car ran well again when I switched back to roller timer. I haven't used a flapper since.

When installing an Anderson you will need to reset the timing.

I am currently running the Anderson with coils set on the ecct have good
May on freshly rebuilt engine it runs rough I have a new day on order I will
Report its performance.

Anderson timers run noticeably more rough than every other type of timer I've used even brand new out of the box. Also, Andersons like to pull your spark lever down when you shut the engine off and when you're hand cranking. I won't use them. Yes, my timing cover is centered with the KR wilson too.

Stephen

I always fully retard the spark lever prior to shutting down any engine with an Anderson timer - prevents the flapper from snagging a contact tang if you attempt to retard prior to starting.

RajoRacer wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:09 pm

I always fully retard the spark lever prior to shutting down any engine with an Anderson timer - prevents the flapper from snagging a contact tang if you attempt to retard prior to starting.

I thought that was a thing of the past and corrected early on, when the first reproductions were being made, (by Bob Thompson)?

Wasn't aware of that Jerry - just a habit that stuck with me I guess.

I suggest you check your Anderson timer for correct timing. My fiend Bill and I set ours up and it makes a big difference. Yes are cam covers are properly centered. Take a large sheet of construction paper. Place an hole in the center with a slit to the outside edge. Remove plugs but keep connected so the coils have a path to ground. Rotate engine without letting the crank come off the pin in the crankshaft. Mark a line on the paper where each plug fires. You should have two lines or two marks. If not, adjust timing by bending tabs except the tab for Number one cylinder.

John, I don't understand where you place the paper? How do you know where the lines go?
Norm

Norman, I'm guessing he's taping it to the radiator, and marking where each cylinder fires in relation to the crank. That's basically what I did.

Referring to John Zibell's post above.
We started by enlarging a degree wheel chart to approx 2 ft diameter. Using poster board we cut a circle the same diameter as our degree wheel. From here we created a hole "dead center" of the circular posterboard (the hole being the just large enough for the crank handle to go through). Using scissors, a cut was made along the lower line from the bottom of the chart to the circular hole- this allows a snug fit between the handle and the hole. Next, tape the chart to the car so that it can't move. Then pencil a light line top & bottom where 15-degrees PTDC (PAST TOP DEAD CENTER) is on the vertical line, both top and bottom.

With spark plugs removed, and key turned ON. Start checking each cylinder, by turning the crank. Stop turning the crank when #1 begins to buzz. Put a mark on the chart at the location where the crank was when the buzz started (not finished). Be exact. Do the same with 2,3, & 4 and mark their buzz starting points. Turn the crank slowly with accuracy. CAUTION- NEVER allow the Ratchet to become disengaged. Also, excessive wear in the ratchet may cause loss of accuracy.
Dots for 1 and 4 ideally should land on top of each other, and 180 degrees on the other side of the chart 2 and 3 should overlay each other. All should land at 15-degrees PTDC. If they don't, start bending the contacts slightly until the firing point is at the 15-degree line. Bend the contacts, not the cup itself.

As you can see from the yellow chart above, the 4 contacts were out of time to the point that the firing points did not align, according to our plan, so we had to bend the contacts and hopefully create 2 dots, instead of 4, and the dots would have to be exactly at 15-degree line.

The end result was smoother lugging around corners, the end to those phantom misses, and better pulling power on hills.

"Bend the contacts, not the cup" - do you bend the contacts up or down ???

Depends on whether the timing needs to be advanced or retarded to make your dot land on the red line..

I understand how to adjust the timer innera. I am wondering if the timer s noisy and if so how loud?

Aet Mirtes

Over all the other noise, never heard mine, even at idle.