MTFCA Forum

Is the price of our cars increasing in value?? https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27329/l ... e-catalog/

I hope so! Everything else is. Diesel is fixing to break $5.00 gal here. $4.95 right now, gone up .20 today. Starting to question Chickasha trip.

Wow !! A reported sales price of “ol #2”. I wonder what Steve Jelf is going to do with it now ?

When cars go to an auction.., the normal crowds of interest are less. It is meant for a broader field to obtain bigger money but in most cases shows where the interest is financially. As with all hobby's/interest a changing of the guards is coming.

Hank

Have to agree with Henry. In 20 years more or less old antique cars will be looked at differently because they won’t be on the road as much if at all.
It’s been coming for a while but it will be the cars in the 50’s -80’s that will be the “new”antique automobiles. The prices for the brass era cars will through the roof and will be rich people’s collectors items.

You’ll see the “new”antiques become the old antique cars that will be the most popular. For the most part a persons age changes how you view cars.

But that’s my opinion!

I would recommend that you take a good look at the other Model T auction results from Bring A Trailer (BAT), Hemmings, Mecum, Barret, ebay, Midwest Auctions and many others before you get too excited. Model T #2 is a one off event and should not be used as the barometer for where our cars' values are going. I pay good money for a Model T because I value them, enjoy driving and restoring them, and have enjoyed sharing them with friends and family for many years, but the recent market does not reflect an increasing value in our Model Ts.

My ‘25 Coupe is worth $6 more today than it was two weeks ago because I filled it up at the gas station today….

6 years ago # 60 went for $165,000 @ Berrett-Jackson back when a 2"x4"x 8' was $1.68 & gas was $235.9 so I'm thinking #2 was a bargain @ that price maybe the dollar is not worth what it use to be instead of the cars being worth more.
Craig.

I wonder what Steve Jelf is going to do with it now ?

I plan to drive it to Michigan for the OCF, if they'll let me in.

Supply and demand will always play a role in the value of something. But the general inflation we have now is caused by the government printing to many dollars. If the government printed twice as many dollars, each dollar in your pocket would be worth 50 cents.

Politicians always want to spend more money (they call it investing) but not raise taxes. Their solution is simply crank up the printing presses.

Craig Leach wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:37 pm

. . . maybe the dollar is not worth what it use to be instead of the cars being worth more.
Craig.

According to the inflation calculator it takes $1.17 now to buy what a dollar did six years ago.

The value of the dollar is decreasing rapidly. (Inflation) Politicians do not have to raise taxes. Inflation raises them automatically. You pay; they PLAY. This is not to say that they will not raise tax rates well above the automatic increases that result from inflation.

TheSaintDiscJockey wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:39 am

Can't say I have the answer to the question of rising T values, but I am getting a kick out of the bidding war going on now on Ebay for a 1917 T touring car. It is beautiful and would be a great addition to anyone's collection. As of this writing, the bid is $13,200. The auction ends Monday morning.

Wanted to check this out but I can't find it.

I think the very early brass T's will keep going up. And other rare cars, or perhaps cars used by famous persons etc. But the average T will go according to the condition. An original car with original paint and upholstery is very hard to find and will still be up in price. Those who remember when the T was just an "old car" are passing on and those who remember their families or friends hobby cars will take some interest, but all gasoline cars will eventually fade away except for museums when gas is not available anymore.I am among those who knew people who were still driving the T's and I saw a lot of them on the road as a boy, but the oldest cars in our family were Model A's.
Norm

Auctions like this are deceiving, they don’t reflect the general populace. These are generally used by wealthy collectors managing their collections. Odds are the guy who bought this sold something else at the auction.

Andy

Cash is a depreciating asset. It ought not be, but it is.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:42 am

Cash is a depreciating asset. It ought not be, but it is.

Inflation assures that. Inflation has been a relentless constant since WW II.

Michael

Where did you find a gas station where you could fill up your T for only $6?

Norrie,

Thank you for posting the link. There are more excellent photos at the auction site than photos that were published in the article in "The Model T Times" when it was covered. Lots of details are shown and a beautiful T.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Michael Peternell wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:25 am

TheSaintDiscJockey wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:39 am

Can't say I have the answer to the question of rising T values, but I am getting a kick out of the bidding war going on now on Ebay for a 1917 T touring car. It is beautiful and would be a great addition to anyone's collection. As of this writing, the bid is $13,200. The auction ends Monday morning.

Wanted to check this out but I can't find it.

An action is not representative of inflation, it only represents the level of desire a person has to own an object and the resources they have to purchase it.
Here's the link and bidding activity https://www.ebay.com/itm/154874659834?_ ... 1758.m4703
Inflation is the rate at which the price of goods and services in an economy increases. RUSSIA is about the experience both forms.
-Demand-pull inflation is when the overall demand for goods and services in an economy increases more rapidly than the economy's production capacity.
-Cost-push inflation is a result of an increase in the prices of production process inputs. Examples include an increase in labor costs to manufacture a good or offer a service or an increase in the cost of raw materials.

Wanna guess the winning bid?

Thanks for the link. Don't know why I couldn't bring it up. It will be fun to watch! I'll let those more educated guess at the gavil price. I'm sure you can't build it for that!

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:00 pm

Wanna guess the winning bid?

If you mean #2, since now we're talking about 2 different cars, it went for a shade over $246K!!

The '17 has til tomorrow, and if it goes for $13.2, someone's getting a nice car at a good price.

Anyone who has ever restored a T knows that they are tremendously undervalued when you take into consideration the years of labor hours, the parts, various services, such as machine shop work, babbiting, Mag coil rebuilding, spark coil rebuilding, etc. and a good paint job. It is our fault really. For some reason, we ask much less than what we know we have in them. Maybe it is some sort of inferiority complex, since for so many years, Model T’s sold for so cheap, it was the way the average man got into the classic car hobby. The only reason Model T’s sold for so cheap is that they became obsolete due to the way they were driven compared to the newer cars replacing them. Nobody wanted them and a little $ was better than nothing. But things have changed. They are now recognized for their historical importance as historical artifacts and should be viewed in that context, but Model T owners are the slowest in recognizing this. When you think about it, it costs as much to restore a Model T as it does to restore a high end classic car that is worth much more because it was more highly regarded back in the day. We are the only ones that can increase the value and desirability of the Model T, if only we stop selling short and ask what we know they are worth. Simple economics. The laws of supply and demand rules. If supply is low, demand increases. If supply is high, demand decreases. While there were a lot Model T’s made, over the years, due to World War I & II scrap drives, amateur restorers or teenagers who lose interest, hot rodders like the Boyd Coddington types that destroy perfectly good Model T’s for their “creations” and, once nice T’s that have been allowed to deteriorate, there are not many of them left in the kind of condition that should demand the higher prices, therefore, the demand should be high. Think about it. Jim Patrick

To the new T owner a model T is slow and requires learning new techniques to drive. Of course people that know nothing "like them" but would they buy a car that is as slow as it is and difficult (from their perspective) to drive? The low cost is what creates new owners not excess availability. The T's inherent qualities and numbers will most likely always keep it on the low end of the collector market.

Model Ts are still being destroyed and butchered, so the numbers will continue to decline. Parts are still being scrapped wholesale. As for difficulty operating, many people today cannot drive a new stick shift Subaru. That's no reason not to learn, if you're so inclined. All Model Ts get older by the day, and scarcer. As for performance, original first cost, etc, consider the Bubblecars, or, for that matter, the 1960s Ford Broncos. Today's prices for these vehicles have no rational basis, and their performance, "safety" and comfort levels are far below what is available today. Other examples of irrational pricing can be seen in the Jeep Wagoneer and the Dodge Powerwagon. Some people want to own the fad of the moment. Some people don't have any special affinity for cars, and buy $peculatively. But a lot of people genuinely love old cars, and I believe these people will always be attracted to Model Ts, whether to Ts exclusively, or Ts in combination with other old cars/trucks of many eras and of every type. As for "safety", a damned fool can and likely will get hurt in or around any vehicle ever manufactured. In my opinion, for what it's worth, the most inherently dangerous vehicle on the road today is a "self driving" vehicle, or anything approaching it. What utter MADNESS!

DHort wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:16 pm

Michael

Where did you find a gas station where you could fill up your T for only $6?

You beat me to that comment!
On a different note: One thing that hurts the value of our beloved Model Ts is the fact that they are not rare, and value is determined by supply and demand. If you assume a survival rate of 1%, there are 150,000 plus Model Ts that exist - perhaps not all running, but with a potential to be made to run. If you cut my assumption in half, there are still 75,000 left. Certain specific cars will draw a premium price, such as the two-lever #2, but the post-brass era Model Ts will be lucky to keep up with inflation in value. If you want a car that will rapidly increase in value, may I suggest a Cadillac, Packard, Duesenberg, or Rolls-Royce of the same vintage as your T. For those of you happy few who have an extra Million or so dollars burning a hole in your pocket, they are a hell of an investment. I'll stick with my T.

DHort wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:16 pm

Michael

Where did you find a gas station where you could fill up your T for only $6?

Most any gas station, he only needed 2 gallons to fill it up. If he waited till Today he could only get 1.5 gallons .

No, only the price of very rare early ones being bought by people who haven’t carefully researched and vetted them.

Eriks' post sums it up very, very well.