MTFCA Forum

Henrietta has led a gentle life and is on remarkably good condition. I just have to keep her that way for the next custodian.

Recently I took her on day tour with the local old car club, and there were two other barn find vehicles there. One was a 1922 T model cut down tourer backboard like Henrietta. It was a special bodied tourer like my 1924 car, which has the fuel tank under the spare tyre carrier at the rear and a vacuum tank on the firewall to deliver fuel. To het it running and useable, it had a really ugly single plane flat iron top fitted. To add insult to injury, rather than fix the vacuum tank so the original rear mounted fuel tank could be used, it had a 1927 fuel tank mounted in the tray on two blocks of wood, complete with rather permanently mounted rubber fuel hose. So much more could have been done in keeping with the car.
Worse was s very dodgy Dodge tourer. It was quite rough to start with. Then they'd added a tourer back half from another car, complete with household cushions for the passengers in lieu of upholstery, but there were no rear doors.
Consider me some kind of purist, but I can't see such vehicles doing the old car movement any favours.
How are such vehicles accepted in your neck of the woods?

Allan from down under.

De gustibus non est disputandum.

Worse is someone gets a "barn find" puts a modern drive train in it and calls it a rat rod. Then they bring it to a judged car show call it a 19XX and want to compete with original cars then throw a temper tantrum when they don't win a trophy. I always try to point out to the judges that that car is NOT a 19XX and ask the judge to show me 10 bolts manufactured in the year they claim. I guess it is their car they may do with it as they please just don't try to pass it off as a true barn find.

Putting together pieces of old cars that were left in a pasture or in a old building or barn is not a barn find.
A barn find is a car that was on someone’s property and just left as it was over many years.

This my "barn find". Got it home last Thursday. Was actually in a metal building of a car collecting friend of mine. 1913 Touring. It was modified years ago with a newer rear end and a 26 engine. The original 13 engine was still with the car as well as the top bows and the correct rear end. My next project!

I think most all pre-WWII vehicles and parts are worth saving, if you have the means to do so. If not, referring these remnants to someone who might want them is a good idea. This stuff is rare and getting rarer, and most abused vehicles and fragments have either salvageable parts or fasteners, or information embedded in them. If nothing else, a badly rusted, battered, and modified ruin can be saved from the scrappers and fed to the Rat rodders, which might save a more intact example from beingt gutted. Rat rods can kindle interest in old cars in young people. I'd expect that not a few kids who's first contact with an old car was a T bucket type hoopie have gone on to appreciate and own stock Ts or other pre-WWII vehicles.

Here is my barn find before and after in the barn

To me a barn find is a vehicle that is found in the same condition it was when it was originally stopped being used as a daily/primary used vehicle. Now the barn find does not need to be factory original but have changes that are period to the years used. Example: My truck is "not" a barn find and I will never claim it is, but was made to look like a truck bought in 1924 and driven up to the 1950s. Then pilled out of the shed, washed off and driven. It's history of use is what it collected in useful creature comforts that would have been used on the farm or period item found before 1950s.

This is probably too rough to consider a barn find. I did find it in a barnyard. You guys with the "real" barn finds keep teasing me with your pictures. As I never found a "real" barn find and the panels were not good enough to restore or straighten I assembled this from the ground up. In doing so I could make it as mechanically sound as a total restoration and have the fun of driving what looks like a barn find. Alas, I suffer from the pain of it not being a "Real Barn Find" but I will get by.

Rich, I absolutely love your "faux" barn find. It was a real treat to see the process as you were putting it together, the fact that it's a "sound using horse" makes it that much better !! The ultimate preservation of pieces that most folks would scrap just flat out makes me happy to think of it.

I'm not sure when my notions changed from trying to resurrect an automotive Lazarus to "better than new", perhaps it was the realization that so much of remaining original stuff can never be fully and authentically replicated, and that many of my attempts at "restoration" were destroying small facets of the whole, and thus, historical evidence. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it continues to bother me when I "fix things too good".

The thing I don't like is somebody who trailers the car to a car show with judging who does not drive the car but keeps it perfectly detailed. Sometimes it is even overly restored such things as grinding off the sand pits from the engine and head and polishing it like a mirror! Then a very nice car of the same year and type parks next to it. The second car has some oil drips and a few minor dings but is definatly a driver. The "perfect" car gets a prize and the driver gets nothing.
I also like a car which is in good running condition but the paint might be faded from years of use, or even storage.
Norm

I have reached a point in this hobby - after a 45 year love affair with antique automobiles, that the age of restoring every car we find should cease. Frankly, the only cars (again, this is just my opinion) that should be restored, are the ones where there's just nothing left that you can do with them, or were restored years ago and are incorrect. They would have to be "that rough" for me to not consider preserving them, as-is. I came to this point in my life after watching so many good cars have a sander taken to them. As recently as in the last few years, I've seen beautiful, unrestored vehicles featured in both Model T clubs, as well as the HCCA, that were destroyed through restoration. It was heart wrenching. They weren't restored wrong... they were beautiful when finished. But gone forever are the details that can only be found in an un-restored car. I just can't wrap my head around the the thought process that take place when someone happily grinds off 100+ year old paint in the name of "restoring it".

I see this all the time in the muscle car industry. I have (along with my two Model T's and 1911 Maxwell) a 1968 SS-396 Chevelle, and a 1969 Z/28 Camaro. Both are unrestored, originals that are numbers matching and documented. I will never restore them. Once they are restored, you are left with an inferior quality, Mexican/Taiwanese/Chinese, re-creation of a once great automobile. It's maddening that people don't get that.

Having ranted as much, I will say that there are cars that do need to be restored. Some have already been restored years ago and were done wrong or need to be done over again... but these are the cars that were already victim of the sander....and there are LOTS of those around. So restore those and make them correct. But for crying out loud, leave the barn-finds intact rather than destroy them through restoration. They are the true time capsules.

This 1913 Touring was buried in 1926 and dug up 40 years later in 1966. Were I to come across a barn find in the condition shown in the before picture, I would probably consider it too far gone, yet, it was completely restored as can be seen in the after picture.

So, in answer to your question, I guess no barn find is too rough, as long as there is someone with the time, money, energy, resources, vision and determination to restore it, no matter how bad. Jim Patrick

Not a model T but I have an unrestored 1908 Autocar that is 100% original. It runs well but I rarely use it because the paint is cracked and bare wood is exposed. I am afraid it will get wet and destroy it. I have tried to find a way to seal the body without lifting the remaining paint but get so many conflicting suggestions that I have been afraid to do anything so the poor car just sits there. The point I am trying to make is that if you own a barn find and want to drive it you sometimes have to compromise if you want to preserve it and that compromise often means forgoing the enjoyment of using it. You can use it and watch it deteriorate or you can restore it and enjoy it. I will never restore this car but I expect sadly that after I am gone someone else will.

In 1979 I bought a 1946 Chevrolet Stylemaster with 41,000. Original upholstery under period seat covers showing a little wear. Front door panels slightly stained. Paint was thin in spots. No cancerous rust. Ran well. I can't tell you how many times people asked if I was going to restore it! Back then I think it was more about trophies and looking new. I am glad there is now much more appreciation for a well preserved auto. At what point is it time to do over? It's still a matter of choice, after all It's your car.

In 1977 I discovered this in a garage in San Diego. It had been there since the end of World War II. It is a 1930 Cord L 29 convertible sedan, the 9th one known to exist at the time.

KMcoldcars wrote: ↑

Sun May 01, 2022 7:19 pm

In 1977 I discovered this in a garage in San Diego. It had been there since the end of World War II. It is a 1930 Cord L 29 convertible sedan, the 9th one known to exist at the time.

To answer the threads title, what did you do with it?

Too rough and parts are hard to find. c'est la vie

It just needs some headlights and fresh gas!

Val, you raise another point. On another run, a Chev buckboard in much the same general condition as Henrietta, had been treated with some kind of preservative. It looked to have been oiled all over, but it was not oily to touch. The result was a much darker look to everything, applied over rust and paint alike, leaving a most unattractive finish. I have often been asked what I would do to preserve Henrietta, but having seen this car, I will stick to my original feeling. She has weathered well for 97 years as is and I can see no reason why she won't continue to do so, without my interference to halt it. I do not take her out in wet weather, and she is treated gently, but is allowed to age as she is.

The really big benefit I have had is having original back seat upholstery and an well aged replacement top that I salvaged from a customer's restoration.
I'd kept it as patterns for others to use, but It has a better use than that. Henrietta's trim and top were almost non existent due to mouse plague damage, so I used the used material on her. Now though, I have to be careful not to damage it further.

Allan from down under.

I once had a car which I wanted to look like a "Barn Find" So I sprayed black primer on it and fogged on red primer to look like dull paint with rust showing through. Only one it fooled was me!
Norm

Allen, boiled linseed oil was a popular preservative for metal and wood. It doesn't last long on metal that is exposed to the elements, but does seal wood pores well and darkens the finish.

I’ve said this once and I’ll it again for the record. More than a few Model T’s have been restored better than they were built and painted at the factory. A REAL barn find car doesn’t deserve that in my opinion.

Rick, looks like you got a good find! From the pic it even looks to be the "all but black dark blue" original paint! Wow. How cool.

Thanks Tim. Very original car, I'm really pleased.

Alan you nailed the dilemma I am confronted with. My car was Brewster Green and for all practical purposes it is now black since the body is all wood and I expect it would swell like a sponge if it got wet. I have the original Panasote top which is in perfect condition except for the cracked celluloid rear window. I have never put it down for fear that it would be ruined so I always removed it as a unit with the buggy rail in order to get the car in my trailer. I worried that even that would eventually destroy the top so when a friend asked to use it as a pattern for a restoration he was doing I had an exact replacement made and stored the original safely away.

Sometimes.. a barn find is a garage find and has the patina you have dreamed of. Such is the case with my January 1915 cut down touring body and chassis which was located in a garage attached to a two story colonial on a quiet suburban street. The car was not rough, but, but not 100% right, having been cut down sometime prior to 1960 and brush painted green sometime around then as well. It had a 'look' about it that I loved, and so in putting it back together and fixing it up 100% mechanically, anything cosmetic was conducted in such a way as to 'compliment' the state of the 'original' car. Does this mean we faked things?.. no way.. the bed hardware is mostly hand-forged and salvaged off an early 1900s Indiana farm wagon, the wood planks are rough sawn hemlock off my old farm wagon that has sat outside in the weather periodically during its life, and while new carriage bolts were used, the heads of the bolts were ground smooth to remove the modern casting marks. It also doesn't me we half-assed craft and build quality to make it look old. I think that's the biggest mis-step people make when trying to resurrect a car with some age on it. The bed for instance can hold as much weight as I dare put in it! Solid and built in a manner appropriate for the era of vehicle. The end result is a car that looks 100+ years old to me BUT is very reliable. Plus the what was left of the original body is solid, maintains a lot of its original features and hardware, and has some real cool tell-tales from its history. Is it too rough? Maybe to some, however it's in the kind if shape that doesn't stress me out to actually use it around the property as a truck and my 6 year old loves to sit on the fenders to help me when working on the engine. Win win!

I did the same thing with my Rusty Coupe as I did with the '14 Touring. Building it from the ground up gives a solid, reliable car. Is is hard to upgrade a barn find without loosing some of the aged charm. The "as found" look is an acquired taste for me. I used to see the potential of restoring them to like new condition. My shiny restored cars are just as much fun and I'm happy to enjoy them all. Now I appreciate the beauty of what time and Mother Nature has given them.
My thoughts are that we should have an open mind to all the ways to enjoy a car and then decide what we really want. If you don't have it the way you want it then you have done it wrong. Others may choose what they like in their own cars and we should be happy that they are content.
Rich

Here is my 2924 “barn find”,… 60+ years untouched in a Connecticut valley tobacco barn. I have gotten it detracted and running. It is on my list for a complete disassembly, clean, paint & reassembly. It will never be a show car, but hoping for a nice driver.


(Someday I'll figure out how to fix pictures, .......)

JohnM wrote: ↑

Sun May 01, 2022 7:38 pm

KMcoldcars wrote: ↑

Sun May 01, 2022 7:19 pm

In 1977 I discovered this in a garage in San Diego. It had been there since the end of World War II. It is a 1930 Cord L 29 convertible sedan, the 9th one known to exist at the time.

To answer the threads title, what did you do with it?

After getting it out of the garage and to my home I first killed all the fleas living in it. Realizing it would take way too much money for me to restore it I traded it for a very nice driving 1932 all original paint, chrome, and interior Lincoln V-12 sedan.
The Cord had been modified. The wheels were from an 1936-37 810 Cord. The instrument panel had been cut out and the gauges replaced with a nice Dodge cluster. The front windshield was tilted backwards instead of vertical. The rear side window went forward at the rear instead of being vertical. The front bumper was from a 1934 Auburn. The sidemounts had been removed from the front fenders and placed at the rear. I do not know what the rear bumper was from. There were other things not correct with the car.
From what I was told the person I traded the car to sold it to a member of the Rupert family, of Rupert Beer and Ebbetts Field fame.
After keeping the Lincoln for a few years I sold it and moved on to something different.

Beautiful Lincoln! They are only original once. I hope the following owners preserved it as well as you did.

Henrietta was not really a barn find to me. She was stored in a shipping container at a storage facility in Adelaide, while the family decided how to deal with her father's estate. But she must have been in a non mouse proof barn for many years before that, at least 61 years since last being registered for road use.

Keeping the original patina while making her safe to use and practical in use, is a far different challenge to restoring a vehicle. I have my son to thank for starting me down the right track. When I started on rebuilding the front end, he insisted that I not clean all the grease crud off the outside of the front hubcaps! That one directive set the tone for much of the work to come. It is largely responsible for the way I changed no.1 rod, in the car, without disturbing the cylinder head.

Perhaps the hardest part in any barn find preservation is making the upholstery and top look authentically old. In this I was fortunate. The top and the upholstery were saved from an earlier restoration of another car. Apart from a new length of black hide-em binding on the top, it looks like it has been there forever.

Allan from down under.

That Lincoln and the Model A and 1932 Model B or V8 shared similar styling.
Norm

I believe the Model A Fords were unofficially known as "baby Lincolns". Chevrolet cars echoed Cadillac styling from 1929 through 1954. 1955-59 Chevrolet pickups have elements of Cadillac styling.

Have been fortunate to find half a dozen barn finds over the years, and this is my favorite, a 1911 Cole Speedster. It was a two owner car parked by the original owner in 1922. The second owner who ran a back woods junkyard in upstate New York stored it in an old wood-framed metal covered truck body. These photos show it after I rebuilt the engine, trans, and front end. The original tonneau cover, headlight covers, and the first owners last registration survived with it.

What a beauty David. Having the paperwork is an added bonus.
A few weeks after I picked up Henrietta, I was given three keys to suit the original switch, plus the 1956 hand typed registration papers, the unused waterslide windscreen decal which acts as the registration tag, and a typed letter from the Stock Agency saying tbe registration fee had been paid from the farm account. Priceless!

Allan from down under.

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Sun May 01, 2022 7:43 pm

Too rough and parts are hard to find. c'est la vie

Extremely desirable 2CV camionnette version. Excellent parts support, same as model T but will cost ya. Body needs to come off and bring your welding skills.