MTFCA Forum

A year or two ago I saw a posting with an older guy who did not want to add a starter to his brass era car, but was having a tough time cold starting his car. He came up with a little attachment he put on something that looked like a heavy duty DeWalt cordless drill that he could put directly through the hand crank hole to start the engine. I think it had an arm that rested against the front spring to counteract the torque. The posting said that he had a quick release pin for his hand crank so he could put it back on at any time.
.
My car can be pretty hard to crank start when it is cold. I was thinking it might be nice to have something like that to start it the first time on cold mornings. Maybe it could be something I attached to an air powered tool since I would only be using it for the first start on a cold morning in the garage.
.
Any thoughts on this??
.
Thank you....Bryan
.

So you have exhausted all other options?
Thinner oil in winter. Leaving the parking brake disengaged. Starting in gear with 1 wheel off the ground.
There is the option of fixing the clutch. New disks with their dish in tact or using modern clutch disks for a true neutral.

This has been talked about before. Trying to have the best of both sides. A nice brass car that’s easy to start. As stated earlier the easy starting tricks for a non starter car are jacking up the rear wheel, using thinner oil, trying for a positive neutral, leaving the handbrake forward and a good tuned engine. As we get older things may have to change to keep using and driving a T and a starter does make things easier for older owners. Keeping a T in shape does include starting it regularly and that’s for a non starter car as well as starter car.

Is your car hard to start when it’s cold weather wise or when its just left for a few days in fairly warm weather? If its hard to start during moderately warm weather it’s probably more of a tune up issue. And of course it is a Model T and they can be downright ornery from time to time !!!

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Mon May 02, 2022 5:35 pm

This has been talked about before. Trying to have the best of both sides. A nice brass car that’s easy to start. As stated earlier the easy starting tricks for a non starter car are jacking up the rear wheel, using thinner oil, trying for a positive neutral, leaving the handbrake forward and a good tuned engine. As we get older things may have to change to keep using and driving a T and a starter does make things easier for older owners. Keeping a T in shape does include starting it regularly and that’s for a non starter car as well as starter car.

Bottom line. Until you are ready to pull the motor to correct, you suffer with it.
Following a few simple instructions with a modern clutch disk set will give you a lifetime of positive neutrals. Thats 0 drag starts.
At that time, consider your ability to start 10, 20, 30 years down the road even with a perfect neutral. Those thinking ahead might add a starter flywheel & the rest for electric start. (all reversible for the next caretaker)

Your responses are valid....but I have been working hard to keep this car as it was from the factory....at this time my car does not have an electric starter, it has an original style clutch (it does drag a bit when cold), it is in tune, but I live in Michigan and the car can be hard to start on really cold mornings. Michigan is one of those places you need a coat and gloves for the morning and sunglasses in the afternoon.
.
I was thinking there has to be a better (and safer) way of starting the car on cold mornings than jacking up one tire. My starting crank has a quick release pin and I was thinking how quickly and safely I could get the car running on one of those cold Michigan mornings with an external starter. I could quickly start the car and back it out of the garage, jump out of the car and close and lock the garage door while it warms up for a minute, turn off the car and put the crank back in and restart the car with the crank and be off for the day.
.
Again, I was just trying to think of a simple, safe way to make the car easier to use on cold mornings without modifying it from original...and I was wondering if anyone else had tried something like this. Warmer weather is coming so I probably will not need to think about this again until fall.
.

Watch 91 year old Royce D. Peterson crank his 1914 Model T Ford back in 2008:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhEnNzv6LBM

He was around Model Ts his whole life. His father owned an auto repair garage in Eagle Bend, MN and Royce started working on Model Ts when he was just a kid.

bdtutton wrote: ↑

Tue May 03, 2022 2:14 am

Your responses are valid....but I have been working hard to keep this car as it was from the factory....

Again, I was just trying to think of a simple, safe way to make the car easier to use on cold mornings without modifying it from original...and I was wondering if anyone else had tried something like this. Warmer weather is coming so I probably will not need to think about this again until fall.
.

Like you, still looking forward to an answer to your actual question …….

I’ve looked at Indy car type starters for my Mack, but they’re too light duty for the torque needed for it.

Might be a possibility for a T though as it takes way less to turn it.

Something like this -
These starters are very light if you leave the battery on th floor, or cabled off to the side. And you only need a couple revs to usually get them to fire.

Just need to figure out how much torque is needed to turn the T engine. (I might have to work on one of these - not getting any younger )


——————————
You haven’t really tried to crank start an engine, until you’ve tried a real truck engine

Maybe something like this could be the start of what the OP is looking for.
https://www.jegs.com/i/JR+Race+Car/574/ ... sPEALw_wcB

Some way of warming the engine might be the most practical solution. Any hand held starter device is going to be somewhat hazardous to use, and probably heavy. Using a 5W-20 synthetic oil can be helpful. Making sure the clutch and clutch linkage adjustments are dead-on will help. Using non-ethanol fuel will give a slight advantage.

I'm not a mechanical engineer or physicist but it seems to me that any hand-held starting device like the two shown are going to take the same amount of force and muscle as actually lifting the crank with two arms, perhaps even more because the short handles on those starters probably don't give the operator much leverage. You would need some sort of bracket installed on the front of the car that the temporary starter could slide onto and rest upon so you wouldn't need to rely on your muscles to provide leverage.

Just thinking out loud.

Using a 5W-20 synthetic oil can be helpful.

I wouldn't. (I did.) I assumed wrongly that it's equivalent to the 20W Ford recommended. It isn't. I suspect it contributed to my bad rod and ruined crankshaft.

My car is a former Montana 500 car. The former owner used 0W20 full synthetic oil in the engine. I've run the car several thousand miles, much of it at 40-45 MPH at temperatures up to 100 F and have had no mechanical issues with the engine. I ran about 1500 miles on the fresh 0W20 that came with it, and have run 10W30 full synthetic since, with no evident change in performance. The engine is clean inside and tight, uses little or no oil, and leaks very little. This car turned in an average speed of around 54 MPH during a recent Montana 500 mile race. All that indicates to me that multi-grade full synthetic oil is entirely suited for use in a stock Model T engine that is in good shape. Most of my driving has been done in temperatures above 70F, and much of it in temperatures of 85-90 F and up. The car shows no sign of overheating. A modern temperature gauge at the water outlet shows running temperatures from 190F to about 210 F. I think the engine actually runs a little cooler than the gauge shows. 1927 car, Berg radiator, green anti-freeze @50/50 , no water pump, 4 blade steel fan with flat belt. Ford recommended a "medium-light" gas engine oil with a LOW COLD TEST. Had any been available then, I'm pretty sure Ford would have recommend something like a 10W20 oil. Some early day manufacterers recommended adding 10% kerosene to crankcase oil during very cold weather.

Look for a chain driven pull start, Bob

I’m with Pat on the synthetic oil.
There were various bolt on front drive starters in the era. I have one that is a chain drive and a friend has one that is a direct front drive. I have considered building one that is a cog belt drive and using a Subaru starter because it rotates in the correct direction.

I built this for a friends 1900 Gasmobile. ( Automobile Company Of America) The car is a single cylinder, the crank is chest high and turns CCW with falling key disengagement. Bites you hard & often. It's made from a old race kart starter. The big pulley goes on the square drive for the hand crank.
Craig.

I built this for a friends 1900 Gasmobile. ( Automobile Company Of America) The car is a single cylinder, the crank is chest high and turns CCW with falling key disengagement. Bites you hard & often. It's made from a old race kart starter. The big pulley goes on the square drive for the hand crank.
Craig.

I used to sometimes see a car with a front mounted starter. I think it was from the old San Fernando Club in Southern California. I don't know if it was a homemade set-up or an era correct one, but I believe it was modeled after an era correct aftermarket starter that mounted to the front crossmember and started the engine through the crank hole. Perhaps someone else knows of or remembers this set-up?

Nice set up Craig!!!!!!!

Remove your original crank and remove the ratchet. Set the crank aside then get a piece of round rod the same diameter of the crank long enough to protrude a couple of inches from the front hole and grind it off square on 4 sides then mounted a square female socket fitting on your starter motor with which to slide onto the square end. There would be no need for a dangerous and questionable quick release pin, for, with the original ratchet fitting on the shaft to engage the crankshaft pin, it would disengage normally when the engine started. You could even leave the starter motor in place while you rushed around to adjust two levers, then come back and remove it from the shaft. Jim Patrick

Yea, but what do you do WHEN you stall the motor in an intersection?
This must be the foremost consideration in the design.

Make a crank affixed with a female square socket to fit onto the square end of the shaft and keep it in the car, just in case. Jim Patrick