How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Alex Dragone
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:43 pm
First Name: Alex
Last Name: Dragone
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Roadster, 1911 Torpedo, 1915 Touring, 1926 Roadster
Location: Orange, CT

How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by Alex Dragone » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:09 am

I am sure this topic has come up many times, but I have recently acquired an incredibly original brass “Rip Van Winkle” 1916 touring and I am wondering how many 1916s had brass radiators and when Ford finally used up all the brass radiators and switched over to the black radiators?


Jim Sims
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:38 pm
First Name: Jim
Last Name: Sims
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 17 touring 20 roadster 21coupe 25tudor 25 pickup 27 coupe
Location: Reed City, MI
MTFCI Number: 13377

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by Jim Sims » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:33 am

Not sure haw many 16 were made, but the black T's started in August of 1916. I have one of the first 17's made August 7 1916.

User avatar

TWrenn
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Wrenn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 30701
MTFCI Number: 24033
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by TWrenn » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:37 am

FWIW the encyclopedia that I have says 363,024 Tourings, 98,633 Runabouts, 1972 Town Cars, 1859 Sedans, and 3532 Coupelets.

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3296
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by DanTreace » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:41 am

Bruces's Big book ref:

"1916"
Model Year- Aug 1, 1915 to July 30, 1916, same as Ford's fiscal year.

Total production 501,462

Touring: 363024
Runabout 98633
Town Car 1972
Sedan 1859
Couplet 3532
Chassis 11742
Ambulance (military orders) 20,700
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Topic author
Alex Dragone
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:43 pm
First Name: Alex
Last Name: Dragone
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Roadster, 1911 Torpedo, 1915 Touring, 1926 Roadster
Location: Orange, CT

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by Alex Dragone » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:46 am

Thanks for the replys, but the question is out of the 1916 cars made how many had a brass radiator?

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:51 am

The answer is all of them. Fords made in 1916 with a black radiator shell are 1917 models.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

Sean Butler
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:22 pm
First Name: Sean
Last Name: Butler
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
MTFCA Number: 31557

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by Sean Butler » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:07 pm

Alex: We'd love to see some pics!
Sean Butler
Huntington Beach, CA

User avatar

George Mills
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:32 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Mills
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster, 1919 Hack, 1925 Fordor
Location: Cherry Hill NJ/Anona Largo FL
MTFCA Number: 29497
MTFCI Number: 10032
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by George Mills » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:41 pm

For those who have not caught on yet...Alex question just might be a trick question. For the vast majority of states at the time registrations and later titles ran from January 1 to December 31 as a calendar year thing. The real concept of actual hard change model year designations came along in the 20’s and was pushed on state DMV by none other than Chevy, now headed by ‘that’ former Ford guy

Anybody have a ‘15 touring built in 14? How about a Runabout, same thing...and while we are at it how about all of those 14’s sold in fall early winter 14?

Not trying to be snarky....just keeping the legend alive!


ModelT46
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:35 pm
First Name: Darel
Last Name: Leipold
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring
Location: Excelsior MN
MTFCA Number: 823
MTFCI Number: 953
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by ModelT46 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:20 pm

Thd 1915 T touring made in 1914 during the 1915 Model Year used 1914 style bodies. The new 1915 style body came out in March-April of 1915.


ModelT46
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:35 pm
First Name: Darel
Last Name: Leipold
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring
Location: Excelsior MN
MTFCA Number: 823
MTFCI Number: 953
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by ModelT46 » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:21 pm

That also goes for the roadster. Only the closed Model T Fords came with new bodies at first in the 1915 model year.


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 3637
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
Location: Grass Valley California, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:42 pm

Sometimes I get tired of the continual debates over semantics. Fifty years ago, it was not widely known what the timeline was for either 1915 OR 1916 model Fords. The same was true for '22/'23/'24 models. MOST people believed that the '15 style open cars came out about September '14 like most new models of most cars of most years. The '15 "style" open cars were however instead delayed by production problems for the new style cowl section of the body. The new style open cars didn't begin to really be produced until January of '15, with full production not until about March '15.
It was also believed by most fifty years ago, that only the earliest 1916s had "brass" radiators. I remember discussions at model T club meetings whether the black shelled radiator came out around April or May or June of 1916. It was later found that "for all practical purposes", ALL 1916 "model" cars were with the "brass" radiator. Only 1916-built '17 models had the black shelled radiators. Fifty years ago, there were more than a few so-called black radiator shelled cars claimed as 1916 models because the car had been dated by the engine number, which in retrospect had been changed at some point. I recall seeing one that had post '20 body, running board brackets, and everything else, that the owner proudly bragged as a '16 because it had a '16 motor.

Of course, I COULD stir the pot a different way by pointing out that ALL model T Fords had radiators made from brass. Only 1916 and earlier didn't cover the brass with a shell and paint.

Remember the four common "years" for any car. The (traditional) "calendar" year, the "model" year, the "style" year, and the "fiscal" year. All of those have slightly different meanings. Any all, two, three, or none could apply under different circumstances for any given car. This is largely true for nearly all makes and models of cars of all "years". Legal and other ramifications can change depending upon the "year" used, and information desired.

User avatar

TWrenn
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Wrenn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 30701
MTFCI Number: 24033
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by TWrenn » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:35 pm

Alex Dragone wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:46 am
Thanks for the replys, but the question is out of the 1916 cars made how many had a brass radiator?
Well, chalk another one up for not reading thoroughly!! LOL...you sure DID just ask about the radiators!!!
and like I think it was Steve who said, for sure, should be all of them. Last year for the brass "anything".
I get a chuckle out of the occasional ad for a '15 for sale saying "last of the brass"!! NOT!...'cause there
was still just the radiator in '16. Next time maybe I'll read more carefully, but I really doubt it!! LOL :lol:


Topic author
Alex Dragone
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:43 pm
First Name: Alex
Last Name: Dragone
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Roadster, 1911 Torpedo, 1915 Touring, 1926 Roadster
Location: Orange, CT

Re: How many brass 1916’s were actually made?

Post by Alex Dragone » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:32 pm


Post Reply Previous topicNext topic