What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

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DHort
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What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by DHort » Mon May 09, 2022 9:41 pm

Should you just ground your generator output? Should you remove your generator? Purchase an alternator? Carry a charger and charge battery whenever you stop? Can you switch to a deep cycle battery and run on 12V? They still make 6V cutouts for tractors and Model A - will that work?

Just throwing the options out there as we learn to deal with this issue.
Last edited by DHort on Mon May 09, 2022 9:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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babychadwick
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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by babychadwick » Mon May 09, 2022 9:54 pm

Tear apart an alternator remove a diode (get the right one) insert in the gen output and wire your battery to it. If charging too much flick your lights on.
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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by Norman Kling » Mon May 09, 2022 9:59 pm

you can remove the cover from your cutout and remove the guts. Then purchase a diode. place it so the current runs from the generator to the terminal block. Direct current only flows in one direction through a diode, so you just place it in the right direction and it will perform just as good as a cutout. When you place the cover back on the cutout it looks like a standard cutout.
Norm

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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by JohnH » Tue May 10, 2022 12:37 am

DHort wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 9:41 pm
They still make 6V cutouts for tractors and Model A - will that work?
Yes, you can use a Model A mechanical cutout with no modification. Similarly, any other 6V mechanical cutout will also work.
If it's a diode cutout, it has to be opened up and the diode connections reversed, since the Model A is positive ground.
I note that Snyders are still advertising the negative ground Nu-Rex cutouts https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/prod ... 2397&cat=0
No idea if that actually means they're still available.
As has been pointed out, you can just use a high current diode, such as from an alternator, wired in series with the generator output terminal.

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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue May 10, 2022 2:01 pm

I guess the diode is actually better than the mechanical cutout because it won't get stuck.
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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by speedytinc » Tue May 10, 2022 6:45 pm

you can buy a tractor type diode unit on fleabay for under $18 Or convert a stock cutout to a diode for around $4.

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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by JohnH » Tue May 10, 2022 9:21 pm

speedytinc wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 6:45 pm
you can buy a tractor type diode unit on fleabay for under $18 Or convert a stock cutout to a diode for around $4.
That's a very good point. It doesn't have to be specified as a Model T or A cutout. Plenty of other vehicles used a third brush generator. In that regard it seems that plain old cutouts, as opposed to voltage regulators, are in good supply.
For example this diode cutout https://www.ebay.com/itm/194874462265 is one option. Or this https://www.ebay.com/itm/175229274524
No idea if that one is mechanical or uses a diode.


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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by speedytinc » Wed May 11, 2022 8:36 am

JohnH wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 9:21 pm
speedytinc wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 6:45 pm
you can buy a tractor type diode unit on fleabay for under $18 Or convert a stock cutout to a diode for around $4.
That's a very good point. It doesn't have to be specified as a Model T or A cutout. Plenty of other vehicles used a third brush generator. In that regard it seems that plain old cutouts, as opposed to voltage regulators, are in good supply.
For example this diode cutout https://www.ebay.com/itm/194874462265 is one option. Or this https://www.ebay.com/itm/175229274524
No idea if that one is mechanical or uses a diode.
The first one is the one I had In mind. Its a potted diode unit with terminals. So it can be wired pos or neg ground
The second one(can type) looks like the cheap mechanical repop GENERATOR KILLER. Not this one!
Last edited by speedytinc on Wed May 11, 2022 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by TWrenn » Wed May 11, 2022 10:14 am

Once again I'll deviate from my "former purism level" :lol: , and continue to be the devils advocate :evil: by saying..."alternator"!!
After I put one on my Fordor, I've never been happier to be such a bad person in Henry's eyes!! (and other critics I'm sure) Ha ha. :lol:

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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by TRDxB2 » Wed May 11, 2022 10:41 am

speedytinc wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 8:36 am
JohnH wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 9:21 pm
speedytinc wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 6:45 pm
you can buy a tractor type diode unit on fleabay for under $18 Or convert a stock cutout to a diode for around $4.
That's a very good point. It doesn't have to be specified as a Model T or A cutout. Plenty of other vehicles used a third brush generator. In that regard it seems that plain old cutouts, as opposed to voltage regulators, are in good supply.
For example this diode cutout https://www.ebay.com/itm/194874462265 is one option. Or this https://www.ebay.com/itm/175229274524
No idea if that one is mechanical or uses a diode.
The first one is the one I had In mind. Its a potted diode unit.
The second one(can type) looks like the cheap mechanical repop GENERATOR KILLER. Not this one!
Reproduction cut-outs for "Vintage Tractors" are Positive Ground like Model A

Good idea by speedytinc » Tue May 10, 2022 5:45 pm
you can buy a tractor type diode unit on fleabay for under $18 Or convert a stock cutout to a diode for around $4.


Conversion is easy and the ebay Cutout may even have a diode

This is all that needs to be done to diode a cut out passing voltage in the correct direction
Attachments
Diode  update.jpg
Last edited by TRDxB2 on Thu May 12, 2022 12:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by Luke » Wed May 11, 2022 4:21 pm

Better than just replacing a cutout would be to make your own regulator (or perhaps persuade someone to make one for you). This would be much easier on the battery than a cutout ever would:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25609


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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed May 11, 2022 4:50 pm

You know Luke, many folks look at a post that has 6 replies and then say "I don't have time to read all the responses, but here's my solution..."

You just sent folks to a 208 post long thread. You might at least ID within that thread a parts list and schematic to a working regulator...

Myself, in the meantime, suggest that folks do what people did from 1928 to around 1995, which is to use the cutout and run the generator at around 4A, and have a simple toggle switch on the generator to either short the output to ground, or not. You'll recharge the battery from the initial start of the car in about 7 minutes and after that, ground the generator...your battery will be recharged, and with no output, the cutout will open...the generator will be saved from injury, as will the battery, and life is good.

It is a fix that worked in the 20th century, and will in the 21st century, too.
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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by Luke » Wed May 11, 2022 7:20 pm

Scott,

No problem if you've no time to read the responses (I did, but I guess I'm just like that) however while I remain slightly puzzled about what you mean perhaps I should explain that I was simply responding to the title of this thread which is "What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made[?]".

To my mind the best option is a 'proper' regulator, even were cutouts still made. While I acknowledge that one could easily just fit a diode, or a toggle switch as you mention, neither of these solutions is likely to be the best for the battery, let alone the generator.

Thus my answer to the actual question is that the best option is to use a regulator, and in the thread I linked a person would be able to read why this is so, and how to make several different designs as they may choose. No doubt one could single out different posts, but that would perhaps be to the detriment of a full understanding of the system (generator, cutout or regulator, wiring, battery etc), hence I'd recommend starting at the beginning of that thread, if one wasn't already aware of it.

Luke.

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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by JohnH » Wed May 11, 2022 7:59 pm

TRDxB2 wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 10:41 am
Vintage Tractor cut-outs are Positive Ground like Model A
Only if it's a diode type. Mechanical cutouts are not polarised. In any case, positive ground diode cutouts can be used with the connections reversed.

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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by Craig Leach » Wed May 11, 2022 10:13 pm

David,
While you are throwing ideas out there. I had three generators in three events in a row fail on my speedster. I removed the generator, plugged the hole, added a battery box ( reversed it to go on the other side) added two ground cut off switches ( I recommend them on any Model T) and run total loss electrics. Cheapest 2-3 horse power you can get. I can run 6 hours with head lights on one battery, running on battery Ign. a fuel pump and incandescent lights on. If you run gravity fuel, LED lights, hand crank your car you can go for a real long time. Yes I carry a charger & a long extension cord just in case, but end up using the charger on other peoples cars more than mine.

I have only had to go to the second battery one time. I run a alternator on my firetruck because the blinking lights & siren use a lot of battery up.
I know these are not popular ways to go but if it works and its better than waiting for AAA to tow you home. I have setup several Ts with the diode and they work very good but a diode failure was one of the three generator failures I had.
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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed May 11, 2022 10:35 pm

Luke

I have in fact been keeping up with the regulator thread until about 3 weeks ago. Call it morbid curiosity. The fellow asked "what is your best option since cutouts are no longer made?" I have read many times recently where folks will NOT read even 6 posts to see that the problem was solved, but proudly announce that they are too busy to read any responses anyway, and then go on to suggest something completely out in left field...thus my comment on sending someone to read 208 responses in the regulator thread. That's a big ask.

If in fact, someone has posted a parts list and schematic for a regulator on that thread, it would, I think, be helpful to the requestor, to post the exact response in a 200+ response, multi-month thread. If it's there, I suppose I missed it, but I have not seen a parts list and schematic and a rave review of how well it worked...just that a few folks are puttering on their own version with mixed results...some promising, some not so much. I don't see that as the best option for the hobby right now much less one guy of unknown ability in this area, but that's just me, I suppose.

So I will ask: is there anyone on that thread who has solved the form/fit/function of a T regulator and is prepared or preparing to offer it to the market? If there is, great! I just missed it, I guess. If there isn't, then there is no cutout option save for personal tinkering, and while I applaud your enthusiasm, for most, that is no option at all.
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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu May 12, 2022 12:08 am

JohnH wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 7:59 pm
TRDxB2 wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 10:41 am
Vintage Tractor cut-outs are Positive Ground like Model A
Only if it's a diode type. Mechanical cutouts are not polarised. In any case, positive ground diode cutouts can be used with the connections reversed.
I rephrased it, Reproduction cut-outs for "Vintage Tractors" are Positive Ground like Model A. Yes the connections can be swapped but might confuse onlookers
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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by DHort » Sat May 14, 2022 11:48 am

Thank you John

I ended up purchasing a cutout directly from the manufacturer, Nu-Rex. It arrived in 2 days. Cost was only $62.25 + $6.50 shipping. It is a semi-conductor cutout so I think that price is very reasonable. Now I have a spare. I wont have to try to make one from parts.
Last edited by DHort on Sat May 14, 2022 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat May 14, 2022 1:17 pm

DHort wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:48 am
Thank you John

I ended up purchasing a cutout directly from the manufacturer, Nu-Rex. It arrived in less than a week. Cost was only $62.25 + $6.50 shipping. It is a semi-conductor cutout so I think that price is very reasonable. Now I have a spare. I wont have to try to make one from parts.
Nu-Rex advertises that their cut-out is capable of handling 20 amps. It is just a diode with a bigger heat sink. In any case do not adjust you generator to output more than 10amps, likely you only need just 6amps for lights (coils are negligible). Your battery's ampere hour Ah rating (not the CCA) will give you hours of power without being charged (Ah/load example 240Ah/6amps continuous = 40 hours but in reality might just be 35 hours.
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DHort
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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by DHort » Sat May 14, 2022 2:38 pm

I contacted Ron Patterson today. He advised me on the sequence I should follow to get my car running correctly. What a great guy. All is good so I took it for a short ride. I just had to replace the VR with the cutout and did not have to get a new generator.

Now I am ready to take it to the Premier showing of Downton Abbey. If Maggie shows up I am giving her a ride.

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Re: What is your best option since cutouts are no longer made

Post by Ed Fuller » Sat May 14, 2022 8:47 pm

I do the same thing as Craig Leach.

I have 3 T’s and no generators.

Henry put a crank on the front for a reason!

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