MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 12:52 pm**

Hi,

Has anyone had any luck buying a headgasket lately? I have tried multiple suppliers, everyone says they've been on backorder for a long time. Steel, copper, silicone, all pretty scarce.

If anyone knows of a supplier who currently has them in stock, please share. Thank you!

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 1:31 pm**

Maybe you have to buy a full gasket set to get one? Are the full sets unavailable also?

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 2:01 pm**

I am selling a lot of Model T parts on eBay and a couple of months ago I listed a hard to get copper Model T head gasket, still in its plastic packaging, with a starting bid of $30.00 and after 32 bids, it sold for $157.50. Needless to say, it was unexpected. The starting bid was $30.00. The bidders determined the selling price, so I was not taking advantage of the unfortunate situation. Jim Patrick

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 3:15 pm**

I was told an old trick to reuse an old copper asbestos gasket was to put it in water and let it freeze and thaw several times. The theory was that the water would soak in and expand the asbestos a bit. I did this to a Maxwell gasket. It spent all Winter in a plastic bag of water outside. I don't have enough miles on it to know how well it worked.
That may be an alternative if new gaskets don't appear.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 3:23 pm**

Adam Doleshal prefers these. He installed one in my car and it has been fine. You can contact him through the forum to check on availability.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 5:41 pm**

If your car has a copper gasket on it that you know of be careful when removing the head and you can reuse a copper head gasket. People would do this back in the T era.
My Grandfather was one of those that did. And yes I know some will roll their eyes and frown on doing this.

People kept their T’s going and reusing a good head gasket was something that was done. Using grease on both sides of the gasket was a fairly common practice also.

Now days most wouldn’t even attempt it. Hopefully they will be avaliable again but don’t count on it anytime soon.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 6:03 pm**

Removing the head to lap valves and scrape carbon was a routine maintenance item back in the day. You don't really think they installed a new head gasket every-time. Theirs was not a throw away society! Dykes says to use grease on the gasket so that it can be reused several times.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 6:18 pm**

That’s right. Nowadays every time an engine is rebuilt usually all replaceable parts are changed out. But it’s true people years ago were more conservative with everything. And that includes saving good used parts. When I inherited my Grandfathers 24 Coupe he had several good copper head gaskets along with boxes of used T parts. Folks didn’t change oil often either. Their T’s leaked enough to keep adding oil to keep from during a real oli change.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 7:55 pm**

Wow, lots of great responses, thank you! I haven't pulled the head yet, but I'll do my best to salvage what's in there. Only concern is it seems to be leaking. I haven't had a chance to get a closer look yet, I'll have it in my shop in a few weeks.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 8:14 pm**

Dilrod wrote: ↑
Fri May 13, 2022 7:55 pm
Wow, lots of great responses, thank you! I haven't pulled the head yet, but I'll do my best to salvage what's in there. Only concern is it seems to be leaking. I haven't had a chance to get a closer look yet, I'll have it in my shop in a few weeks.

Why are you pulling the head? Don't just do it for "look see".

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 8:40 pm**

I have no opinion regarding the use of grease or other thing to butter up a head gasket for reuse, if the gasket was sound and only removed to facilitate valve or piston work. But it would stretch credibility to suggest that a head gasket that is leaking already, has much chance of giving better service with any sort of a salve, though.

"it seems to be leaking"

I'd be darn sure it really was, and if it was, ascertain exactly what the ramifications of that leak held for the wellbeing of the engine. Then I'd do everything I could to limp along, if reasonable and feasible, until I had a replacement in hand. Not all leaks are necessarily worthy of attention given the present dearth of head gaskets.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 11:09 pm**

A head gasket is almost impossible to remove without damage if K&W spray-on copper gasket sealer was used. Is there anyway to soften the gasket sealer to make salvage of the head gasket more likely? …such as running the car until hot and then attempt to remove the gasket. Being hot, might soften the gasket sealant making it easier to remove. Jim Patrick

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 12:07 am**

Still a little puzzled by the lack of gaskets. I heard the story about worn out dies. I think it is a material issue. If you had the material a water jet could cut a thousand in three days.

Andy

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 8:31 am**

Gasket Works makes reusable solid copper head gaskets that will work fine on a T. Thin 20 or 18 gauge is less expensive but will bump up the compression ratio by a small amount unless you have them use thicker material. They have the pattern for the T's and A's @ http://www.headgasket.com

I've made a number of them for vintage road and racing cars out of .047 soft sheet and if you are interested, I can describe here how to do it later.

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 9:54 am**

David,
When using a solid copper head gasket is there a need to anneal it before installation?
I would assume that even a "soft" copper blank would tend to harden through the cutting process would it not?
Lastly, if needed, how do you anneal it?
Harry Lillo

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 3:04 pm**

I have made some solid copper T head gaskets for “odd” applications (F head, big valve flathead, OHV). I use HYLOMAR as a gasket dressing. If/when I need to anneal I use a kitchen oven on “self clean” for at least a half hour and then IMMEDIATELY quench in room temperature water.

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 7:51 pm**

Harry Lillo wrote: ↑
Sat May 14, 2022 9:54 am
David,
When using a solid copper head gasket is there a need to anneal it before installation?
I would assume that even a "soft" copper blank would tend to harden through the cutting process would it not?
Lastly, if needed, how do you anneal it?
Harry Lillo
[/quote}

Harry, if you buy it from a company, probably not. I think most of them are cut with a water jet which doesn't harden it. If you make your own and start with "dead soft" material you should have to anneal it either.

As Les mentioned, I also use Hylomar which should prevent any water leaks.

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 8:24 pm**

I’m pretty sure the gaskets I had made were lazered. I’ve been wrong before though!!

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 8:37 pm**

Hey but at the rate of complaining about the cost when available, my last cost per square foot of 1/8" copper plate was about $38.00 delivered, that was if I bought 2 each 3' x 6' sheets. That was before the mega price gouging/pandemic crap! Price it now or brass and cry!

Hank

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 10:26 pm**

I just left a message with Gasket Works. We’ll see what happens when/if they call back. I’m sure there will be a minimum quantity for ordering.

Brad

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2022 8:01 am**

Has anyone got a drawing for the head gasket? We are looking at getting some water cut here and trying to get as accurate as possible working from a head

Cheers
Glen Mcconachie
New Zealand

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2022 8:14 am**

Les, they may have been laser cut, but copper is a challenge to laser cut. CO2 lasers allow too much back reflected light to damage the optics (an expensive repair). Better choice is a Fibre laser, reflected light is not a problem. An even better choice (in my humble opinion) is water jet cutting. No need to worry about reflected light and the heat affected zone is extremely narrow.

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2022 10:07 am**

Brad,
From what I have read, meeting a minimum order requirement would not be a problem.
Art Mirtes

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 5:42 am**

I have heard there is a light at the end of tunnel. No it is not a train. There is help coming.

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 6:59 am**

An old timer had me use Silvafrost, an aluminised brush on paint, as a gasket sealant. I put on one coat, allow it to partially dry, and then apply a second coat. It seals very well, and is never a problem to remove a gasket later on. I have a few hanging on a nail, used just once, and likely usable again in the present scarcity.

Allan from down under.

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 8:02 am**

eBay AU if any interest UD dollar maybe attractive to bulk order. Just a thought

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 8:31 am**

Might want to try Al Lambert at Gasket City alambert@gasketcity.com or www.gasketcity.com I recently got a Model A head gasket from him

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 12:28 pm**

So I have requested a price from the local shop that has CNC water jetted them for me back in 2016. Hopefully have a quote by tomorrow. The deal would be 20 pieces and considering I live in Canada, I would want to bulk ship

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 1:04 pm**

Les Schubert wrote: ↑
Mon May 16, 2022 12:28 pm
So I have requested a price from the local shop that has CNC water jetted them for me back in 2016. Hopefully have a quote by tomorrow. The deal would be 20 pieces and considering I live in Canada, I would want to bulk ship

Les,

For a solid copper head gasket, I have always wondered if there would be any benefit to having at least one face of the gasket photo engraved to relieve the areas beyond the combustion chambers and coolant ports maybe .002 or so, leaving full thickness for maybe a 1/4" wide, thereby "framing" the combustion chambers & ports and concentrating a little extra crush in those areas. Yes, it adds another level of complication, which may not add anything of value, but again... just wondering. Thoughts?

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 1:13 pm**

Jerry, I'd think it would be more cost advantageous to simply have the gasket dimensioned to accept fire rings. In any event, for solid gaskets, even with dressing, the block and head need to be perfect, and that does not describe the vast majority of blocks in "mature" Ts. Maybe for an absolutely perfectly prepped new engine, but for older engines, HMMMM...I have my doubts regarding high success rates of use...

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 2:01 pm**

And if there is no interest or fear, then I will not proceed!

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 4:40 pm**

It is literally amazing the cry of demand.., Been here many times, but when someone retools to produce, puts on the market, new price, they all scream! They all have friends to help make them something or to get by for now instead of purchasing. It is a simple Return On Investment, (R.O.I.) as a business model. YOU MUST MAKE A PROFIT EVEN IF YOU ARE A HOBBYIST!!

Not being a Debby Downer, stating hard core facts. I supported the hobby with great losses vs successes, now moving on. Finishing up my last T, and I wish you all luck.

All the Best,

Humbled Hank

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 5:10 pm**

Didn’t Birdhaven have some prototypes on display at Chickasaw and was planning to make them if there was enough interest?

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 5:18 pm**

It’s not a big deal if you follow my business plan, Henry Lee

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 7:07 pm**

Really simple;
1. I don’t personally need any gaskets!
2. I have the digital drawing and a trusted source that can water jet solid copper gaskets that IF your block and head are smooth AND you use HYLOMAR should work
3. I am leaving in 3 weeks for the summer on a cross Canada tour in my 67 Mercury truck
4. If there is interest in a 20 piece order, great.
5. If not, all cool!!

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 10:45 pm**

I resemble your business plan Tim! That’s why I now only make products that I don’t mind getting stuck with. If nobody wants it... I’ll keep it!

I started making big valve solid copper gaskets 10+ years ago. I have a contact that will laser cut and deliver gaskets on demand. It’s not cheap, but it’s available if you are running out of options.

Having ran my gaskets for several years, it is my opinion that solid copper gaskets are only a good choice if there are no other good choices. I have had excellent success with the silicone bead composite gasket, and don’t hesitate to recommend them. I found that they are really easy to resize the combustion chamber for oversize valves, and are much more accurately made than the copper option. The only down side... is they are NOT reusable

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2022 10:52 pm**

That’s it, Kevin! I’m about to be self-unemployed again. It’s the 3rd or 4th time but this one may stick

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2022 11:52 am**

John kuehn wrote: ↑
Fri May 13, 2022 1:31 pm
Maybe you have to buy a full gasket set to get one? Are the full sets unavailable also?

I called Lang’s this morning and they informed me that when they get an order for a gasket kit they build the kit from the gaskets they have in stock. I only asked about copper and they are out of stock.

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2022 12:42 pm**

: s-l500.jpeg (18.73 KiB) Viewed 9290 times

I always use Felpro gasket sets on engines rebuilt in the shop when available because they are the best on the market. The last T set used came with a copper gasket, although their set for T available now, part number: FS 7012 B it is shown in blue and may still be copper? If not anything that Felpro sells works well and if you can live without copper if it is some type of a composite, I wouldn't hesitate to try one. Your locate parts store or engine parts warehouse should be able to get one.

Here is the catalog listing @ https://www.drivparts.com/part-details. ... sket%20Set

They are available on ebay as well for $147 and $192.

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2022 1:26 pm**

I just bpught a Fel Pro full set for a T. It appears to be newly made, with fresh gaskets and fresh packaging. The head gasket is the blue (teflon?) type that Fel Pro has sold for years for many applications, including many 1950s-thru 1970s high compression V8s. It has steel fire rings and a fiber core with the blue, slightly tacky overlay. I beleive these head gaskets are meant to be used without any kind of sealer, but I'm going to review the FP website before I use it. The other gaskets are mostly rubberized cork, and appear to be of good quality. The pan cover is a black fiber material. The manifold gaskets have steel glands that fit into the ports. I did not see any felt items or crankshaft seals. (FS 7012 B)

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2022 4:13 pm**

I just called the local Orielys auto parts store and they carry Fel Pro gaskets. A Model T engine gasket set is available for 157.00 plus tax. It would be their special order since they don’t carry as a stock item but would be shipped to my address in 3-4 days. Doesn’t have the copper head gasket but their conventional head gasket. In reality a copper head head gasket is not necessary for a T but maybe in special situations and only if you really want it. The last full engine gasket set I bought was around $ 55.00 but that’s been a while ago!

I wouldnt hesitate using the head gasket as it’s pretty much the same type that used on newer high compression engines.

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2022 4:44 pm**

The problem is not what the gasket is made of but the condition of the block and head surfaces, copper is more forgiving to imperfections in the poor and warped surfaces. If the head and block are freshly decked then a modern gasket is fine.

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2022 5:00 pm**

John kuehn wrote: ↑
Tue May 17, 2022 4:13 pm
In reality a copper head head gasket is not necessary for a T but maybe in special situations and only if you really want it.

I wouldnt hesitate using the head gasket as it’s pretty much the same type that used on newer high compression engines.

I thought you HAD to use copper if you were running a high compression head?

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2022 5:24 pm**

Who said you had to or was it a recommendation? I don’t know but ???

Posted: **Tue May 17, 2022 6:45 pm**

I test fit a silicone head gasket on a increased compression aluminum head and the fire rings putrid into the combustion chamber a little to much for comfort. The label said it would fit a stock or a Z head. But I have a Prus head. His installation guide suggested copper for best results. I assume the copper fits the modified combustion chamber better

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2022 3:47 pm**

I contacted head gaskets.com (gasket works USA llc) and they said they can make the copper gaskets. They are pure copper not sandwich type. Standard thickness 0.32”-0.40” $140.00 f.o.b there shop.

Posted: **Wed May 18, 2022 4:54 pm**

Bryant and others who may be interested in solid gaskets, you might really want to contact Les and help him build an order for that very kind of gasket. You will not find a more knowledgeable guy to pull this off. I have no inside info but suspect that in his batch of 20, the price would be reasonable...

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 11:54 am**

Has anyone inquired at Olsen Gaskets in Port Orchard, WA.? Their website lists a T head gasket for the Neal Jern conversion, but not for a regular T. They are a custom gasket manufacturer and if demand was great enough, they might be convinced to make a run.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 6:20 pm**

Les Schubert wrote: ↑
Mon May 16, 2022 7:07 pm
Really simple;
1. I don’t personally need any gaskets!
2. I have the digital drawing and a trusted source that can water jet solid copper gaskets that IF your block and head are smooth AND you use HYLOMAR should work
3. I am leaving in 3 weeks for the summer on a cross Canada tour in my 67 Mercury truck
4. If there is interest in a 20 piece order, great.
5. If not, all cool!!

so what would a 20 piece order look like in price?

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 6:23 pm**

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑
Tue May 24, 2022 11:54 am
Has anyone inquired at Olsen Gaskets in Port Orchard, WA.? Their website lists a T head gasket for the Neal Jern conversion, but not for a regular T. They are a custom gasket manufacturer and if demand was great enough, they might be convinced to make a run.

I sent them an email. I will update when/if I here back from them.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2022 7:48 pm**

Bryant, what you describe is typical of one brand of aluminium heads. The castings are not necessarily consistent. Even the copper sandwich gaskets do not fit well on a head with combustion chambers that are inconsistent. The Prus head I fitted to my roadster is much better finished and it fitted really nicely.

Allan from down under.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 6:35 am**

Allan wrote: ↑
Tue May 24, 2022 7:48 pm
Bryant, what you describe is typical of one brand of aluminium heads. The castings are not necessarily consistent. Even the copper sandwich gaskets do not fit well on a head with combustion chambers that are inconsistent. The Prus head I fitted to my roadster is much better finished and it fitted really nicely.

Allan from down under.

I to have the prus aluminum head. I contacted Mr. Prus and he informed me Snyders silicone head gasket would also work. Unfortunately Snyders supply is “out of stock” go figure…. I also spoke to a employee of Texas T parts and they said they have been in the T parts business for 35 years and have seen the supply shortages before. Just a matter of time before it comes back or someone makes a run on parts. Let’s hope so. In the meantime I have other parts of the T to attend to so I will be waiting…..

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 10:08 am**

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑
Tue May 24, 2022 11:54 am
Has anyone inquired at Olsen Gaskets in Port Orchard, WA.? Their website lists a T head gasket for the Neal Jern conversion, but not for a regular T. They are a custom gasket manufacturer and if demand was great enough, they might be convinced to make a run.

Olsen gaskets returned my email. They are a dead end also…

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 10:24 am**

As I understand it, the last couple of runs of copper gaskets were a bit problematic due to wear in the dies and the dies were simply pulled out of production. Given the cost of the series of dies required to make these gaskets, if indeed new dies are needed, we will likely be looking at $125+ gaskets. And even at that, not realistic, but for sake of discussion, assuming no labor or material costs, I'm guessing that it would take well over 400 gaskets sold to even break-even on die costs.

Anyone out there in hobby-land that wants a "T" business with certain sales and strong demand has but to put up $50K or so for dies, and then contract with a shop with a compatible press and *PRESTO* you're in business. For your trouble and expense, 5 guys will thank you and 100 will whine that you're ripping them off. Go figure!

Imagine being in the engine-building business right now! No thanks. Or the cam, cam gear, or anything related to T engines, right now. I am betting that these folks are beginning to feel it now, too, and will get worse as engine building slows down or grinds to a halt in the interim.

The good news is that this has probably stopped all those guys who want to pull the head "just to see what's inside". Or not.

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 11:08 am**

I got the quote for 22 piece order (this uses on full sheet of.040 copper) water jet CNC cut. These are modified slightly to optimize using a Prus head.
$112.00 Canadian each. If they are directly shipped to the US then the GST can be avoided. Shipping is extra.
If you want to proceed then I can provide the contact info.
I will not be around to “manage” this!!

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 12:16 pm**

So it about $88.00 US per gasket

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 12:50 pm**

Les

that was very good of you to spearhead this!
enjoy your cross-country trip...sounds like a very nice adventure

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 2:16 pm**

I bought a couple from Adam, so they are for sale, Bob these are the gray ones

Posted: **Wed May 25, 2022 2:36 pm**

I have forwarded the quote to a person interested in managing this. I hope it all works out great

Posted: **Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:34 pm**

Does anyone know whether they are available at this time?
Norm

MTFCA Forum

Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them

Re: Headgaskets: Everybody is Out of Them