MTFCA Forum

There has been lot's of posts lately of inner tubes. Here is some photos of a sixties Firestone tube. It is most likely the same thickness as the Blockley that was posted previously. The original Schrader rubber valve stem has been removed, and is replaced by a Schrader 888 which is the shortest metal valve stem that will go through a wood felloe, and work.

If only modern stuff was made the same way! The thick pad at the foot of the valve stem makes for a good basis for fitting a replacement old style thhreaded brass stem. Real early tubes even had a fabric layer vulcanised into the pad to further strengthen it. Modern tubes can be fitted with the same replacement stems, but there is not the same material to be clamped to. To salvage one otherwise good old style tube which had a damaged valve stem hole that would not seal on the metal replacement stem, I fitted a heavy stick-on truck puncture repair patch over the hole. That gave a new clamping surface for the valve stem.

With new quality Blockley tubes I probably would not go to the same lengths again, but it was an old tube which HOLDS air.!

Allan from down under.

Can I ask why the bridge washer is shaped the way it is? Is there a reason why it to raises the stem base off the rim?
It must serve another purpose other than sandwiching the stem to the tube...? Would you use modern bridge washers with a new Blockley Tube?
Alan in Western Australia

Blockley specifically advises that neither bridge washers nor flaps are required for their tubes.

I asked, they answered, so do what you wish with that info...

My guess on bridge washers is they were designed to help keep the beads spread apart when inflated. I wasn't even alive when these type tubes were made. The Model A guys should know. They got A & L to reproduce the correct Schrader products for their cars, and they are right on. I would like to know if Model A's originally used bridge washers?

My thoughts are bridge washers provide clearence between the nut and the rim for the original clamp on stems. Modern metal stem tubes do not use a nut so might not need a bridge washer, like a rubber stem.

I have a little different take on it...but it's just my opinion. First of all, I do use flaps. I think they help keep the tubes from bulging into the space between the beads of a clincher tire. Since we run 60-65 psi in our tires, I believe that would be a possibility. Second, I do use a bridge washer so that when I tighten the rim nuts, I am tightening against the bridge washer, not pulling the stem against the flap or pulling the stem and tube between the beads if no flap is used. The bridge washer nicely "bridges" the gap. Time will tell if my approach is any better or worse than what others do.

I also asked blockley if bridge washers were required and got the same answer. I think their confidence is due to the thickness of their tubes and the robust attachment of their brass stems. Nonetheless, they didn't say not to use them.

Hey Larry, I had a set of those old Firestone tubes purchased from Harry Johnson at a Reno Swap Meet back in the 60s and they taught me to use flaps. I hated flaps and never used them back then. My old ice cream truck ran white tires and I continually had flats. I installed those Firestone tubes and that was the end of my flats. Why did they teach me to run flaps? After 25-30 years of use without flaps I began having flats. The edge of the tire rubbing against the tube finally rubbed tiny wear holes in the tubes, and I really got mad at myself because I could have prevented that, had I been running flaps.

Ed aka #4

How many people run 65 pounds of air in their tires? I run 55 pounds in my clinchers and don’t really worry about them get down to 50. Knock on wood, I haven’t had tire problems.

Andy

I have had two flats over the years with Firestone tires. The tires were quite ruff where the beads meet i don't believe the tube ever comes in contact with the rim and that was where the hole was and had proper inflation. I have been running flaps for years now with no problems and surely do not have to worry about pinching a tube if irons are required.

I started using flaps when Firestones were made in New Zealand. I got three flats on the same day with the same tire! That cured me on not using flaps. Ed, thanks for backing me up on this one. I always enjoy your truthful comments.

Let me continue with my tire saga.... When I was a new Model T owner, I was looking to save money so the first tubes I bought were rubber-stemmed Hartfords installed in Universal T-Drivers. Everything seemed to be all right for awhile until one day I went out to the pole barn and there was my T with a flat tire. I took the wheel to the tire shop and they discovered that the side of the rubber stem had been rubbed through... probably by the tire bead. (photo 1) - The stems were cut on the sides, not front or back like they'd be if the tire slipped on the rim. The stems were standing nice and straight, not bent. I keep 60-65 psi in the tires so the tire shouldn't slip on the rim.

I had a couple of old tires that I'd removed from the wheels and while looking at the beads I noticed someone had ground or cut a little relief in the bead where a stem would go thru. (Photo 2) - I decided that was a good idea so I ordered a new tube and took all the wheels off (demountables) and took them to the tire shop (yes, I use a tire shop..) While they were sitting at the shop waiting their turn to be modified, another tire went flat for the same reason. I ordered another tube and went on my merry way.

I never got another flat but it ate at me, wondering if it would happen again but at a more inconvenient time. Eventually I ordered a set of Blockley Brass-stemmed tubes and have never looked back. I've put 1600 miles on them with no problems and they hold air better than the Hartfords they replaced. They cost more but there is a good reason to use brass stems in clincher tires.

This typical rubber stem failure damage. The bead relief cut was much too small. The notches must be large enough to allow the stem to "float" in place, no pinch & rub.
With metal stems, the relief cut is not necessary unless the stem interferes with the bead closing.

I've been notching my tires since the mid 1960s when I finally realized that those great Riverside tires were pinching the stem off. And I still notch them even though I don't need to with old original metal stems installed. Incidentally one of my car (non Ford) is still running at least two red rubber tubes. Amazing how long the good rubber lasts.

Ed

Here's a question which may have an answer, or not? How many of the 'cut' rubber stems have been on the skinny 3" front tyres? With 30 x3,5" tyres all round on our Canadian sourced cars, I have never had the need to notch the beads, even on older tyres with wider feet on the beads. I am in the process of mounting a set of new 30 x 3.5" BE Olympic tyres with the wide feet. I will take photos of my progress for comment.

Allan from down under.

My "cut" stems were all on 30 x 3.5 inch clinchers. The photo of the relief cut in the bead of a tire was taken of a old tire that I had on hand. My tire shop ground off a bit more but were careful not to remove too much.