MTFCA Forum

The new Miller heads will be making more progress soon. I will be making more castings with a view to having a couple of cars dyno tested.

It would be helpful to know how many people are interested in one from the first run. The more castings I can buy, the less expensive the castings will be, which can be reflected in final cost to customers. A working target price will be $435-450. The first run will be all iron.

Other heads being considered are low and high profile stock looking heads with the same 6.25:1 chamber, and maybe a Ricardo looking head with my 6.25:1 chamber. These will all be iron, with special order aluminum available.

Tod

I would be most interested in a stock high head.

Interested looking for more info. Dan

put me down

I could be interested. The head needs some lettering or graphic to make it look special ($435-$450)
Then there is the issue of head gaskets, and what else do I need.

would loike 1 price?

I would like one also. I agree with the previous post that lettering on the head would be great
Ralph

I seem to remember an early discussion about introducing the lettering after the prototype phase...

I'm thinking of using MS 625 CF for the identification lettering. MS = Miller-style. 625 = 6.25:1. And CF = Crow Foot combustion chamber.

Tod

For something more "authentic", without running into legal problems, how about using something just a letter off of the original MILLER, such as MOLLER, MULLER, or MILLEY? I like your idea of identification but it definitely varies from the original. However, it your head to decide.

Speaking of names, who is "Tod"?

MIELER would be cool... tho they would have to come with a warning not to modify the first "E" with a grinder as it may be an infringement...

blockheads2014 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:57 pm

I'm thinking of using MS 625 CF for the identification lettering. MS = Miller-style. 625 = 6.25:1. And CF = Crow Foot combustion chamber.

Tod

I'd make it my own. You did the work why be nostalgic!

Here is the second prototype sample. I have sand being made for 3 more samples. The first head ran well, so it is time to get a few more out for testing.

I've been talking with my foundry about ways to cut costs, which will then be applied to any other heads I decide to make, like a low or high profile stock looking head, with this same crow foot chamber.

For those interested, these heads are made using 3D printed sand for the water jacket and deck side. That insures accuracy and consistency.

Tod

Boy, that sure looks nice!

How about RELLIM 625? I know it ha ben used befor!

How does she run compared to a Prus or z?

I picked up 4 sets of sand today for the new Miller Style heads, and had a discussion with a foundry about making these in production. It appears that I will be able to sell these for $425, and iron stock looking heads (low and high) for around $400. All heads 6.25:1 compression ratio.

Tod

Put me down for one.

I will take one of the new versions. Mike Lebsack

I will take one in iron.

What's the benefit of a miller head?

Benefits include substantially increased power, speed, and economy, along with less carbon deposition.

I would also expect some improvement in ease of starting and better running during warmup, and potentially smoother idle.

Downside?

Ignition would need to be in good shape for best results, but that's true of any engine.

by Model T Tom » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:09 am
The chamber is a crow foot design . Compression is 6.25 with stock pistons.
--
There are also some that prefer cast iron over aluminum
other compression rations https://mtfctulsa.com/Tech/head_design.htm

Yep, I'm one of them, we had an Al head on a car once, and the difference in expansion rates have us headaches. IF one was made in CI, then I would be in for one. Prefer low heads as they work with earlier cars, but there's greater cooling capacity on a high head, once we know how they work... The other issue is (for me) living across the pond... but hey, no one said it would be easy, right? --grins--

Just so Model T owners can know, what lift cam did you run with your test head engine ? Some Model T owners run a higher lift cam, and in looking at your pictures of the combustion chambers, it looks like some higher lift cams could have interference when the valves are all the way open . It would not be a big deal to notch the combustion chambers if needed, but it would be good to know first.

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:33 pm

For something more "authentic", without running into legal problems, how about using something just a letter off of the original MILLER, such as MOLLER, MULLER, or MILLEY? I like your idea of identification but it definitely varies from the original. However, it your head to decide.

When Charlie Yapp reproduced the RILEY he marked them as RiLEY.

In the Model T hobby there is a tradition of false advertising of compression ratio. I put together the chart someone posted from the Tulsa website. Whether they are advertised at 6:1 or 8:1, they all tend to measure about 5:1. So is your head truly 6.25:1?

CamMan wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 12, 2023 3:19 pm

In the Model T hobby there is a tradition of false advertising of compression ratio. I put together the chart someone posted from the Tulsa website. Whether they are advertised at 6:1 or 8:1, they all tend to measure about 5:1. So is your head truly 6.25:1?

Good question - depends on this definition & piston
From Tulsa by definition, the compression ratio is the total swept volume of the cylinder with the piston at bottom dead center (BDC), divided by the total compressed volume with the piston at top dead center (TDC). The Tulsa chart does not indicate if stock or the same piston was used for all the heads calculations

There is no question about the definition. It is strictly a ratio of volumes. Yes, all the calculations in my chart were for the same stock piston or the second chart with an 0.60 overbore and Model A crank. It seems crazy to me that someone can spend so much time to cast a head and dyno test it but not manage to get its basic volume right.

Larry

you are correct on all your points, and I've always carried the same opinion as to what on earth some folks are doing to come up with the ratios that they advertise. I've never made a point of discussing this insofar as I am not a user of modern HC heads and really have never had occasion to mention it. I'm glad to see someone actually weigh in on the subject that isn't trying to express opinion as fact. My $.02 is that I much more worry about combustion chamber shape and efficiency...I just love the old Waukesha Ricardo head for its ease of hand cranking and perky performance boost. It's compression increase is very mild but it's performance improvement is outsize of it's compression increase. That makes timing much more forgiving to minor errors or carelessness while actually driving.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:13 pm

Speaking of names, who is "Tod"?

Is it TOD, or TED ?