MTFCA Forum

Having owned a model t for a few years and having repaired the odd mechanical features that were designed into the vehicle, mechanical features that make the car complex and antiquated, by today's standards.

And now newer owners are trying to up grade the car even further with air conditioning, disk brakes, electronic ignition, high tech voltage regulators, and more all to eliminate the original analogue electronics to a microprocessor.

By doing so may make the care more reliable and enjoyable, but where does that leave one to experience the original challenges and failures of the design?

I am currently drilling my pristine sheet metal, preparing for the future, with the addition of a mini dvi port. But I was told that such a port in a few years may be obsolete.

May I suggest, for a more progress upgrade, that some one please show a design where the battery and even the acetylene generator is replaced by solar panels to provide both electricity and lighting from an alternate source.

You don’t need all that new stuff for a Model T. I just plug my code reader into the OBDII port at the coil box and it tells me what I need to know….

Just grab them thar plug wires an' if they bite yew, yew good to go!

Each owner must make decisions for himself as to how to restore or modify his Model T. I for one have found the cars to be very reliable when maintained in their original condition. I do like the period accessories such as Rocky Mountain brakes and Ruckstell axle. I, however don't think the auxiliary axle is necessary or important if the car is to be driven in the plains where there are few steep grades to climb. The brakes are good for hills as well as traffic conditions. The magneto and coil ignition system works well if properly maintained. And it is one of the unique features of the T.
Any modern alterations are short lived. They tend to be trendy and are only manufactured for short periods and in limited supply, so the owner needs spare parts along when driving the car, because modern electronic parts are likely to fail right when needed and not available. So if you like an e timer or i timer, you better have a spare or an original type timer along just in case. For distributors, you should also carry along parts for it because it is unlikely anyone on the tour will have parts to fit and not every auto parts store will carry them either.
The early cars didn't have a battery, generator, or starter, but could be started by cranking. The later ones had those electrical parts but could still be started by cranking. Not so sure crank starting can be done with a distributor.
Anyway, you can always buy a Tesla or other modern gas or electric car if you want all the latest equipment.
Norm

You should be able to crank start a distributor system as long as your battery had some level of charge. I don't know about crank starting a distributor system on magneto. If you could get the distributor points in proper sync with a magneto current pulse peak, I'd think the car would start with a good hot magneto. Both the E Timer and I Timer appear to be quite reliable. The only downside I see to the I Timer is that it won't allow starting on magneto, but it will run on magneto. Free starts are available with the I Timer on battery. The E-Timer offers several advantages over the I timer, but it requires a battery.

Actually George,

The boo birds are probably correct that whatever tech sounds good today will be un-obtainium in 5 years...just amazing how that goes...

Further...I drove me '15 for 20 years using ONLY a 6.3V lantern battery that I'd use only for DC coil starting and then switch to mag. I tried to PM change the battery every year, but in anxious Springs I maybe skipped that part and still had no problem.


fwiw, I had installed maybe a 20-24 led 'light' in my gardening barn to overcome shadows. Not a lot of light, I'll admit, it has a mini-rechargeable Bazooka 'bubble gum' sized battery, and I charge it with a corded 4x4 solar panel facing south mounted on a fence post. When I pull the string-cord it comes on...when I pull the cord again it goes off. 2 years now...works every time...lol. I wonder if something like that could be used by placing a bigger version battery cell (like the one used on Verison Fios as emergency phone backup) inside of a fiber container done up to look like the 3 dry cell kit used in the pre wet celled batter days on Ford cars, with just a solar panel to hang in/or out a window???????

I believe you could get enough solar panel exposure on the roof of a closed body T to charge the battery in sunny weather for daytime driving with little or no cranking with the starter. I don't believe such an arrangement would support a car that was started freqently or driven much at night or had any electrical accessories. Absent a battery, you might be able to crank start the car on solar power alone under good conditions. A sedan would be a better platform than a coupe. I would not care to park my car in the sun at every opportunity in order to collect solar energy. A "solar roof" could probably easily support a 12 volt auxilliary battery used to power various electronic gadgets and provide backup ignition battery service.

A fence type dry cell would not be able to be charged because it automatically charges it self inside and it will work for 5 - 8 years untouched, you couldn't solar charge it. For starting purposes a wet cell rechargeable type automotive battery will last all summer without needing to be recharged. It then can be kept with a battery maintainer on all winter. You could even install the battery maintainer in the vehicle with the power cord placed easily accessible. With a dry cell you could replace it every 5 years and have no issues. On many occasions with the ignition off pull the crank to just past TDC and turn the ignition on and it will frequently self start, and on some occasions I don't have to do anything and it will free start. Don't mess with it with the ignition on.

You don't need to drill any holes, at least in the sheet metal, for an accessory electronic device. One of my winter projects this year was installing tail/brake lights and turn/emergency signals in my 1915 runabout. The control panel has switches, indicator lights, and two outlets for phone, tire pump, GPS, etc. It clamps to the bottom of the dash. The only holes I made were in side lamp bolts, the trunk floor, and the top floor board. After reading horror stories of Ford ignition interfering with electronic accessories, I was relieved to find that everything works as intended.

Emergency!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH85w4Yqhi4

NO. A good, hot magneto will easily start a T. No battery needed.

Did the car leave the factory with a battery? Answering that question will give you the answer.

Did the car leave the factory with a battery? Answering that question will give you the answer.

Yes, IF the mag is in factory condition or close to it. But there's a reason Ford included a switch position for starting on battery. If the mag is not up to snuff, you want a battery.

does it need a battery is like asking if it needs a spare tire. No if you don’t drive it or it’s a trailer queen

After 19 when starters were installed they may have left with a battery. But before that ???? I will copy a link to this early discussion. Dan.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/10664.html

OK, the early 1908/1909 Fords did have dry cells to help with ignition. But at the time dry cells were replaced and not recharged.
https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1909-10H.htm

My neighbor didn't need those panels on his house roof anymore, after water leaked in around the attachment areas, rotted the roof and fell into the attic.

James, the same thing can happen to the roof of a model T sedan. Like everything, it needs to be installed correctly. My son is employed rectifying solar installations. There are lots of cowboy operators out there.

Allan from down under.

All the Fords came with a battery terminal and the ignition switch has a battery position, however Ford maintained a battery was not required. This is true all Ts are capable of starting on the mag if you are part gorilla. Knowing where the next pulse is and throwing it over center with violence it may start or if you are an accomplished body builder and can whirrel it up to about 100 RPM it may start. The starting procedures are very different on mag than on battery. Just pulling over center on mag would have to be extremely aggressive and whirrling at 100 RPM is equally challenging Starting with a battery has several challenges and serious injury can occur. If the spark is not set in the correct position through neglect or complacency you could experience a kick back that can be very violent and break your hand or arm. The kick backs will not happen on a mag start because there is no spark until you turn it where as there is spark with a battery start even if it is not turning. You get a free start only with a battery. We all know how careful one has to be when starting on a battery, if you get complacent the T is always ready to hurt you.

Sounds like some one needs a Tesla, not a T.

Or a crank start with a T that has a descent magneto.
Watch how easy a really old dude(Steve Jelf) does it.

Amazing - there is agreement on needing a battery in a Model T. Two predominate conditions : if the magneto is not up to snuff - problems can occur at any time so as a back up; if you have no magneto; if you have a starter. Hand cranking can use battery or magneto so…..

Altair wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:16 am

... The kick backs will not happen on a mag start because there is no spark until you turn it where as there is spark with a battery start even if it is not turning. …

I’m no expert as I’ve only been into Model T’s about a year, but it would seem to me that even on magneto you could get a kickback if the timing is before top dead center. Just because you have to be turning the crank fast enough to generate a spark with the magneto, that wouldn’t preclude an early spark from spinning the crankshaft backwards.

"By doing so may make the care more reliable"

The continued promotion of this myth only serves to hurt the hobby and deter new Model T ownership. I am always perplexed by the curious folks who are amazed that I drove a 100 year old car to the gas station or ice cream shop. They've been groomed by big companies that old technology is worthless, unreliable and you're crazy if you don't own the latest model. I guess they assume that any vehicle that does not contain microchips and other useless technology is not road worthy.

I've driven obsolete cars all my life. I've encountered a number of people who expressed amazement that I would drive them all over the county, or anywhere else, near or far, that I needed or wanted to go. I've never had a car of any vintage that gave any indication of being aware of where city limits were. I used to encounter 1970s cars that would insist that a door is a jar, but I never knew of one to have territorial preferences.

You can get a kickback when starting on magneto or on battery. When starting a hot Ford engine with the crank on period, low octane fuel, you could get a kickback with both magneto and battery switched off.