MTFCA Forum

When fitting your hogs head do you us Neoprene or felt for the front arch?
And do you gunk both sides?

Good old fashioned felt and yes, gunk both sides.

Use care with neoprene as most likely it isn't very long term fuel/oil resistant and that is prone to flaking or melting.

Sometime s the 'good old' materials are better suited than modern ones.

I use the felt gasket from the gasket set. I work black gasket sealant into the felt on both sides, so that I have a felt reinforced black sealant gasket.

Allan from down under.

The felt works really good. Before laying in the transmission cover use a light coat of silicone sealer to hold the felt in place and then put on the cover. It holds the felt in place for a perfect seal.

Have always used the ole' school method an old gentleman in my neighborhood advised me when a 'teen with my first T. He said to soak the felt in varnish, squeeze it down some, then put in place. The varnish is sticky enough to stay in place while setting the hogshead, and will harden over time and make the felt oil proof.

Do add a thick dab of silicone sealer, like the Right Stuff only in the two corners, (Service Book says to add a piece of candle wax candle wick there), but a glob of modern sealer is best for those two spots that are prone to leak. The rest of the gaskets get slathered with good ole' Permantex #2

I do what Dan says, but have never soaked the felt in anything. I do cut two 1/8" pieces of the felt off, and put it in the corners with plenty of Ultra Black.

I have always used the varnish method. I dip it into a can of varnish, hang it up with a clip overnight. The varnish will form a hardened crust. Now it's less messy to work with. When you tighten down the cover the crust will break through and the varnish will squeeze out to form an excellent seal. The last time I had to reinstall a hogs head I didn't want to wait for the varnish to crust over, so I used the RTV Black. It is holding fine with no leaks.

Don't confuse Black RTV with Permatex Ultra Black and The Right Stuff... The Permatex is a very superior product and will just about guarantee no leaks if applied to an oil free joint. It cures to a flexible rubber that has very good adhesion. I like the longer working time of the UB since I'm not in a hurry. I use the UB on nearly every assembly part where a gasket and oil free joint is the goal.

You will find a thousand uses for the UB product with it great adhesion properties and Flexibility! I have used it to patch a tear in top material, glue on a modern seal to the front crankshaft, Prevent leaking from the freeze cracked block, fix a broken plastic container, repair a cracked dust pan, and the list goes on and on if there is something slipping, vibrating or cracked and torn that you want to secure this may be your answer.

Hi Kevin,
I use the ultra black method I just don't use the felt. (I know that's not a acceptable way of doing it.) I run a large bead of RTV across the block and in the corners. Wipe a very thin coat of grease on the hogs head, place it in position and run the front bolts down finger tight, tighten the rears down then finish tightening once the RTV is set up (say over night) Once I used The Right Stuff and years later I had to pull the hogs head off with my engine puller. So I don't use it anymore.
Craig.

Thanks guys lots of options there.
I dont have any "Right Stuff" on hand but I see it is available in NZ if I want to wait a week or so for it to arrive, I will order some either way as it has a good following.
Sounds like nobody uses the neoprene, I wonder why the vendors even stock it?
I managed to wiggle and remove the HH with the exhaust manifold in place and the exhaust pipe undone but resting in place, I plan to remove the exhaust as it might be tricky to replace with surfaces gunked up, I have read the exhaust manifold needs removed also for the refit, do you?

Thanks

Kevin, try 'Three Bond' - locally available and the 'go to' around the club in NZ.

Cheers

Thanks Adrian, I haven't heard of that. I see if I can track some down.

We recently replaced my hogshead. In the attempt we tried to put the hogshead on after the felt was in place. It had UB on both sides. The felt kept moving and we ended up quiting and throwing the felt away. Then we put on a new felt with the UB and let it set overnite. The next day it was easy peasy. The felt stayed in place and HH went right on. Definitely paid to let it set overnite.

I use ultrablack.
Be very careful tightening the bolts on the hogs head. The two right next to the edge where the felt seal is located will crack off the hogs head if not tightened carefully. I like to start toward the center of each side and work out to the ends similarly to how to tighten the head. Turn them a few turns then go on to the next one and start in the middle and work to front and back again a few turns at a time finally tightening them. I don't know how many foot lbs but turn them with a 6 inch handle wrench till they feel tight. If after you tighten everything and run the engine, you should detect an oil leak at that junction of the block, hogs head and crankcase, you can wipe down with solvent such as naptha and then smear on some ultra black. That will usually seal any small leaks.
Norm

Norman, I'll use your tightening system, thanks.

Dave, the second time when you let the UB set overnight did you -
a - have have both sides covered from the start
b- Only the underside covered overnight then put fresh UB on before lowering the HH
c - Not put any UB on the top surface of the felt at all

Ta

Always used the felt with red Permatex at the ends. Never had any problems.

Kevin,

I believe we had the felt saturated on both sides before we put it in place. We did add additional UB in the corners at the end of the felt strip.
I would say you could also add UB to one side, and then place it on the block. Next day add the UB to the topside of the felt and let it soak in a bit before you drop the HH. Make sure you have the exhaust disconnected even if the engine is out of the car. It just gets in the way and prevents you from dropping the HH nice and evenly.

We also installed the gaskets the day before with UB on the bottom. When you are ready to drop the HH, then add UB to the top side of the gaskets.

I just did my 1911 and used felt. I cut the ends to the correct length, then put Permatex #2 on the underside, and an extra dollop at the ends.
I added new pedal cams with o rings and put o rings and springs on the clutch control too.
Seems to be working fine.

This has been a very informative post for me, thanks guys.
I have both "threebond" and the "The right stuff" on the way.
Today I tried a dry run refit and the exhaust manifold is a pain when lowering on by yourself while engine/trans is still in the car so I have removed that.
I also removed the bottom 2 bolts and winched the rear end back slightly to provide a gap at the ball joint.

Rata, Sorry you ordered The Right Stuff... Although it's just as amazing as Ultra Black for fixing just about everything you will find that in most cases the working time is too short. Just be aware and have everything ready. The directions say you can install and immediately put back in service which sometimes is very good.

Enjoy and let us know how many other things you fix with it!

Gene - when I was researching the products yesterday I noticed the Red version is a 1 minute setting time but the black is a 90 minute setting time.
I have ordered the Black.

Three tips for using a sealant that were drummed into me by a late friend who was a 'gun' T engine rebuilder ('gun' is New Zealand slang for 'very good'):

* When using Three Bond (or other sealant) cover both sides of the felt with an even layer - you don't need too much.
* Soak the felt in thin engine oil for a while before putting the sealant on and assembling. (It seems to work as I haven't had any hogs head seal leak yet.)
* Most important of all: When the parts are together bolt them up snug but don't tighten them much. Leave the Three Bond (or other sealant) to set for an hour or two, then come back and tighten up the bolts properly. Delaying before tightening avoids the sealant being mostly squeezed out of the joint while it is still 'gooey' - which leads to leaking. This is especially important when using the sealant on other joints (with or without a gasket being used).

I never heard of a neoprene option. I dont see it in Langs or snyders

This method works for me:

Exhaust manifold & pipe removed.
Glue the pan gaskets down with permatex hi tack, including the top 1/2 4th main gasket. The back of the motor gets a 1/2" wide strip of gasket material .062 thick. I have some rubber impregnated cork, but cutting a strip from a late 1 piece valve cover gasket works also. & it works for the varying thickness requirements for early & late T's It is also glued down. Nothing to slip out of position & leak down the road.
Top of pan gaskets get a spread of ultra black. The back of the motor gets a thick bead. Bead in the 4 corners. If you anticipate removing the HH, coat the HH's gasket surfaces with a thin coat of motor oil, it will seal, but release without damaging the gaskets.

Lay in the HH back to front. Setting the clutch fork first. Let it rest down in place. Remove your band holding device/method. Get band ears situated. Dont force the tie down, you may have a band ear out of position, etc. Start bolts middle/back to front. Lastly the 2 fronts & 2 rears. Work the bolts down gently all around until the extra ultra starts squeezing out. Let set overnight. You can trim the excess bead with a razor blade.

Thanks that's two valuable options.
Maybe I got the Neoprene from Macs, cant recall.
I read the instructions for it and it states the tolerance limits to check for straightness then only put sealant/gunk the bottom of the neoprene and only use a thin oil coating on the top, this allows HH to bed in without disturbing the seal.
It claims it does a better job than felt and will stay on when HH removed next time and be reused. It's incredible not a single person on this forum has ever used it?