Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
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Topic author - Posts: 385
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- First Name: Neal
- Last Name: Willford
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Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
Restoring or working on a Model T is hard work, but generally pretty easy. Some projects are easier than others though. This is the second T that I have done a frame up restoration on, and it was time to reassemble the painted leaf springs. The front springs are really easy to reassemble, and can be done with a couple of wood parallel clamps and a large Phillips screwdriver in the bolt hole to keep things aligned (first picture).
I quickly had that one assembled yesterday and moved on to the rear leaf spring. I didn't recall having any problems assembling the rear spring on the first T restoration, so I approached assembling it based on how I remembered doing it the last time (second picture). Well that really didn't work this time. The leafs kept shifting as I compressed them and I could not keep the center holes lined up enough that I could get the center bolt through. I tried various ways of doing it and after a couple of hours had enough for the day. During that process I realized that I had to get the various spring pieces in the right orientation because some appeared to have a bit of a set on one side relative to the other. That was contributing to the shifting center holes.
I finally searched the MTFCA forum site and found a tip buried in a general thread about rear springs. That was to use a 12" piece of 3/8" all thread and run it down, clamp it TIGHT with C clamps, and then swap out the all thread with the bolt. I wish I had seen that thread earlier. A trip to the hardware store this morning for the needed pieces and the rear spring went together. It took a couple of assemble/disassemble/reassemble steps as I saw which pieces needed to be flipped over to better nest between the adjacent leafs. After that the center bolt slid through all the holes easily and soon had it tightened up.
Anyway, if a rear leaf spring assembly job is in your future, I would suggest using this approach to compress the rear spring. The same approach could be used on the front spring assembly, but it is pretty easy to compress that two wood clamps work fine. I found on my front spring that I had to flip one of the leafs to get them to nest better. You can see that the second to largest leaf is not fully riding on the bottom leaf at the left side of the spring in the front spring assembly picture below. That is the one that I flipped around and then they all nested like they are supposed to when it was compressed all the way.
I quickly had that one assembled yesterday and moved on to the rear leaf spring. I didn't recall having any problems assembling the rear spring on the first T restoration, so I approached assembling it based on how I remembered doing it the last time (second picture). Well that really didn't work this time. The leafs kept shifting as I compressed them and I could not keep the center holes lined up enough that I could get the center bolt through. I tried various ways of doing it and after a couple of hours had enough for the day. During that process I realized that I had to get the various spring pieces in the right orientation because some appeared to have a bit of a set on one side relative to the other. That was contributing to the shifting center holes.
I finally searched the MTFCA forum site and found a tip buried in a general thread about rear springs. That was to use a 12" piece of 3/8" all thread and run it down, clamp it TIGHT with C clamps, and then swap out the all thread with the bolt. I wish I had seen that thread earlier. A trip to the hardware store this morning for the needed pieces and the rear spring went together. It took a couple of assemble/disassemble/reassemble steps as I saw which pieces needed to be flipped over to better nest between the adjacent leafs. After that the center bolt slid through all the holes easily and soon had it tightened up.
Anyway, if a rear leaf spring assembly job is in your future, I would suggest using this approach to compress the rear spring. The same approach could be used on the front spring assembly, but it is pretty easy to compress that two wood clamps work fine. I found on my front spring that I had to flip one of the leafs to get them to nest better. You can see that the second to largest leaf is not fully riding on the bottom leaf at the left side of the spring in the front spring assembly picture below. That is the one that I flipped around and then they all nested like they are supposed to when it was compressed all the way.
Last edited by NealW on Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
That has been the recognized way of doing it for years and is how I did mine in 2010. After the spring leafs, lubricated with slip paint, were compressed and tightened with a long piece of all thread, I clamped the leafs tightly together with a wood clamp, removed the all thread and replaced it with a tempered rear spring square headed bolt, made for that purpose from Snyder’s or Lang’s. Do not leave the mild all thread in place. I don’t believe that grade 2 all thread would hold up for long to the stresses of holding the powerful flexing leafs together. Jim Patrick
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Topic author - Posts: 385
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
I totally agree. It was there until I got my two 8" clamps on and then removed and replaced with the tall squared headed bolt from Langs.jiminbartow wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:14 pmDo not leave the mild all thread in place. I don’t believe that grade 2 all thread would hold up for long to the stresses of holding the powerful flexing leafs together.
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
That looks like it would be a good way to do it. As I remembered it, from about 25 years ago, I put my leaves together sideways with the bolt loosely tightened and then either pounded them from the side or pulled up with clamps into place, then final tightening of the bolt. I used grease between the leaves to keep them lubricated. Seems the grease had graphite in it. But that was many years ago. Your way sounds like a good way to do it.
Norm
Norm
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
The rear spring above fits nicely. I usually fit each leaf to the next one, one at a time to make sure there are no gaps. I would rather use an original high head bolt for this spring. The spring above is a real nice one.
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
I believe I've always used the all-thread method. No problem.
The bottom bolt here is an original. Note the high head Larry mentioned.
The top bolt is the one Lang's was selling at the time. I didn't use it.
I believe I got this NOS bolt from Bob Bergstadt.
On one project I used a regular bolt and built up the head.
Not perfect, but close enough for me.
The bottom bolt here is an original. Note the high head Larry mentioned.
The top bolt is the one Lang's was selling at the time. I didn't use it.
I believe I got this NOS bolt from Bob Bergstadt.
On one project I used a regular bolt and built up the head.
Not perfect, but close enough for me.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
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Topic author - Posts: 385
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
Lang's sells the thick headed rear spring bolt and spring for $8.25. I don't know how someone can make and sell those for a profit, but I'm glad that they do! The thicker head does make it easier to get the spring properly located in the chassis channel.
If they were made by RV, I hope someone else will continue to do so
https://www.modeltford.com/item/3838OR.aspx
If they were made by RV, I hope someone else will continue to do so
https://www.modeltford.com/item/3838OR.aspx
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
Here is an extra long Rear spring bolt from Snyder’s. It is long enough to pull the leafs together like all-thread and once tightened, can be cut off at the nut and bradded. Jim Patrick
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
Just in case anybody is unaware of it, I'll mention here that there's supposed be a pad on top of the spring. I made one from a piece of old tire, and another from leather using John Regan's drawings.
The inevitable often happens.
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1923 Touring
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
Not to change the subject, but I will contest that at least in 27 toward the end of production no pads were used on the front or rear springs. This is evidenced by a mostly all original 27 Coupe I have that probably was never taken apart and still had all original shackles.
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
When I bought my 1926 all original coupe in 1970, though they were hard and rotten, both front and rear springs had pads between the springs and cross members. Jim Patrick
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
The plot thickens... my contention is that they discontinued them some time late in production. My car is a March 1927 so that is pretty late and would make sense as the Model A never had pads.
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
My ‘26 coupe came off the assembly line in March of 1926. Whether or not Ford stopped using them sometime after March, 1926, I personally think the spring pads are necessary because, on a car that vibrates as much as the Model T, steel to steel contact between independently moving steel parts will cause unnecessary noise and wear. Even if they were discontinued in the last months of the Model T, I would still put them on for the reasons sited. It makes no sense to me that in the last months of an 18 year run, Ford would discontinue a useful, inexpensive, easy to install part that proved itself to be an essential part of the Model T for the majority of its’ run. Jim Patrick
PS. Bruce Brakke is currently restoring a completely original 1927 coupe that has spring pads so I don’t believe the pads were ever discontinued. Any “original” Model T that is found to be missing the spring pads, is missing them either because they were forgotten on the assembly line, or because they rotted and fell out or wore out.
PS. Bruce Brakke is currently restoring a completely original 1927 coupe that has spring pads so I don’t believe the pads were ever discontinued. Any “original” Model T that is found to be missing the spring pads, is missing them either because they were forgotten on the assembly line, or because they rotted and fell out or wore out.
Last edited by jiminbartow on Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
With the pads it is less likely to crack the frame cross members. Too much hammering and flexing of the frame can cause "metal fatigue.
Norm
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
I would put pads in, preferably leather ones. I believe the pads would help prevent chafing and wear and noise, and they might also help prevent the crossmembers especialy the front ones, from cracking due to concentrated stress. The stamped steel crossmember is not an exact match for the leaf spring. A tough pad helps spread loads more evenly.
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
With all due respect, read as "... my guess is that they discontinued them..." You're basing your theory on one car out of 15 million.pron022020 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:29 amThe plot thickens... my contention is that they discontinued them some time late in production. My car is a March 1927 so that is pretty late and would make sense as the Model A never had pads.
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
My 1927 coupe was built in January 1927. There was a pad between the front spring and the cross member as shown in the attached photos.
I don't have a photo of a pad between the rear spring and the cross member, and I don't remember if there was one there or not.
I don't have a photo of a pad between the rear spring and the cross member, and I don't remember if there was one there or not.
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
Neal, What is the year and model of the car that the spring is for?
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Topic author - Posts: 385
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Re: Rear leaf spring assembly made easy(er)
It's from the 1911 touring car that I'm restoring