Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

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NorthSouth
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Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

Post by NorthSouth » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:23 pm

    -
    Here is a random question:

    Would anyone, by shear chance, know who bought this 1910 Ford Touring Car at this year’s Long Beach Swap Meet? …I live in the area and would very much like to know who bought it. Because, I bought nearly the identical car, same basic set up, one year ago and have been restoring it “specifically for touring” ever since. I would like to invite this buyer into our local Model T activities and maybe share his and my respective early Ford restoration process here in Southern California. Not to mention uniting against the “red headed stepchild” heckling that these type Ts suffer from the “purists”.

    Mine is pictured below the pics of his new purchase.

    It’s worth a try just in case anyone knows who ended up with this bargain….
    -
    Attachments
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    Last edited by NorthSouth on Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.


    Topic author
    NorthSouth
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by NorthSouth » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:28 pm

    -
    Here is a photograph of the "similar" 1911 project that I took on a year ago.
    Of course it is a different car than the 1910 at the Long Beach Swap Meet.
    -
    Attachments
    D30A675D-A934-4231-AB85-A4C4B7049702.jpeg
    Last edited by NorthSouth on Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.


    speedytinc
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by speedytinc » Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:38 pm

    FWIW I looked her over. There was not much if any identifiable real 1910 parts on her.
    I am no means an expert, but know enough to not get took. Bout all I could say, it has a buggy rail top.

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    TRDxB2
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:47 am

    So when is a 1910 no longer a 1910
    mock10.png
    --
    --
    This is a 10 1910
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Original Smith » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:23 am

    There are far too many fake cars!

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    RajoRacer
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by RajoRacer » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:23 am

    This is also a very correct 1910 - it now resides in Sweden !
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    Oliver's 1910 Touring.JPG


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Erik Barrett » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:01 pm

    This car belonged to a guy in our local club. It was built to tour, not for show or to satisfy purists.

    If it was a real 1910, people would be complaining about the higher price it would be offered for and still be picking it to pieces.

    Authentic 1909/1910’s are available, just not for $23K.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by speedytinc » Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:19 pm

    Erik Barrett wrote:
    Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:01 pm
    This car belonged to a guy in our local club. It was built to tour, not for show and to satisfy purists. If it was a real 1910, people would be complaining about the higher price it would be offered for and still be picking it to pieces. Authentic 1909/1910’s are available, just not for $23K.
    It is a pretty T, but for truth in advertising, it should have been noted as a "replica" or "built up to tour".
    The seller Claimed it to be a 10 with a later motor.
    As long as the buyer is aware & willing to pay the price, great.


    Jerry VanOoteghem
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:18 pm

    speedytinc wrote:
    Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:19 pm
    Erik Barrett wrote:
    Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:01 pm
    This car belonged to a guy in our local club. It was built to tour, not for show and to satisfy purists. If it was a real 1910, people would be complaining about the higher price it would be offered for and still be picking it to pieces. Authentic 1909/1910’s are available, just not for $23K.
    It is a pretty T, but for truth in advertising, it should have been noted as a "replica" or "built up to tour".
    The seller Claimed it to be a 10 with a later motor.
    As long as the buyer is aware & willing to pay the price, great.
    I think that by the items outlined in the seller's listing, it's pretty clear what the car is and is not.

    Nothing like a bunch of T guys to be "holier than thou" about a T that's not completely original and perfect...


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:27 pm

    If I put a 1953 engine in a 1940 Ford, do I have to re-title it as a '53? Are any 1910 Fords still riding on their original tires and tubes? Original top, paint, and upholstery? Original wood?

    "I think that by the items outlined in the seller's listing, it's pretty clear what the car is and is not."

    I agree.

    If you are in the market for a truly original 112 year old car, be sure you know exactly what you are looking for, and I suggest you have a general idea of what such cars have sold for in the last several years, if any have sold.

    Truly rare and original cars have substantial costs over and above the purchase price.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Herb Iffrig » Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:12 pm

    There are a lot of differences between the 3:23 and the 3:28 photos. Is that the same car, before and after restoration?
    I think the color is off too. The original color would have been darker, a Brewster green.


    Jerry VanOoteghem
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:03 pm

    Herb Iffrig wrote:
    Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:12 pm
    There are a lot of differences between the 3:23 and the 3:28 photos. Is that the same car, before and after restoration?
    I think the color is off too. The original color would have been darker, a Brewster green.
    No. They're not the same car at all. Different cars and different owners. Reading the postings will explain all ;)


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:30 pm

    To my thinking, a replica is a new car built of new material to resemble some particular early car or some particular later model rare car, such as an AC Cobra. "Restoration" is a very broad category, with no defined limits that I know of. A list of non-Ford accessories in a car's description clearly identifies it as far less than 100% accurate/original. Most Model Ts in running condition today more closely resemble Johnny Cash's Cadillac than they do an untouched century old factory original build. A reproduction, in my opinion, is a vehicle built in recent times of modern, but period-correct materials, so far as is possible, using period methods, so far as is possible, to duplicate a specific early vehicle as closey as possible in every detail.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by ModelT46 » Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:05 pm

    A replica should duplicate the original. There have ben perhaps 12 or more replicas of Henry's 1896 first auto that he built. All, I beleive, are operational replicas following the original in every detail. Most all "1910 Model T Ford replicas" are really "look-a-likes" and not replicas.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:01 pm

    The typical replicar has a fiberglas body on a VW chassis.


    Jerry VanOoteghem
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:07 pm

    Did anyone even begin to answer the OP's question??? :roll:

    Not important I guess. Better time spent ripping apart someone's "new" T. Hope the buyer visits here to see what comradrie we have to offer.

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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by A Whiteman » Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:22 pm

    I think that by the items outlined in the seller's listing, it's pretty clear what the car is and is not
    That I must disagree with.

    Its like old computer code:

    IF you are a Model T fan THEN you 'Know Better" ELSE you will be misled

    Before going further - I do not know any of the folk involved in this sale and perhaps the exact details were disclosed clearly to the buyer - I would trust that is the case. I have no problem with built up cars - hey they keep the hobby rolling!

    Some generalisations to think about when selling or buying things:

    * As you will all know, your sincere interest in something does not help you in terms of knowing when you have been misled.

    * "Buyer beware" is true, but does in no way give an excuse for the seller to knowingly mislead by making false statements OR by just withholding pertinent information.

    * Bringing new blood to the hobby is not helped by not being clear and fair to them about what they are looking at - especially if you, the seller, know the real story. Losing trust at the purchase will not help the buyer to know who to trust going forward.


    Jerry VanOoteghem
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:23 pm

    I give up...

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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by A Whiteman » Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:28 pm

    Jerry, that car is cool, probably fairly priced too. It would be a great touring car, and the OP has the right idea - reach out, welcome and look forward to camaraderie going forward. I bet the buyer can just get out and start motoring in that - and it would be fun.

    Please, when WE sell, be open and clear so the buyer knows what he is looking at because I sure didn't know one fender type from another when I started - nor did I really mind. That's all..


    ThreePedalTapDancer
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by ThreePedalTapDancer » Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:58 pm

    I like it. As an owner of an early T, it can be quite painful when something breaks or needs to be replaced. That T would be the perfect tour car and easy on your wallet if you have to replace common parts. I would drive the wheels off it and chase off the purists with a flamethrower when parked at events. Ok, maybe not a flamethrower but with some well aimed retorts.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by SurfCityGene » Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:24 pm

    I'll carefully post.... I believe the car didn't sell, Steve

    It did look nice and ready to drive. A couple of other cars didn't sell as well.
    1912 Torpedo Roadster


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Norman Kling » Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:49 pm

    That is a good looking car and most people who see it don't even know what it is. Only those who are very well educated in the original parts would know it is not pure 1910. Almost every car which is used for touring, has something not original. The value of any used car is whatever the seller and buyer agree to be the price. The only question would be be "restored" or reconditioned. If an engine has been re bored or has aftermarket pistons, rings, or crankshaft, the car would not technically be "original" But the car looks period correct and if the buyer likes it. Fine with me.
    Norm

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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:01 pm

    Jerry VanOoteghem wrote:
    Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:07 pm
    Did anyone even begin to answer the OP's question??? :roll:

    Not important I guess. Better time spent ripping apart someone's "new" T. Hope the buyer visits here to see what comradrie we have to offer.
    I believe this answers part of the question. This site says the car was sold and on the way to Arizona
    https://www.vaultcars.com/1910-ford-model-t-touring/
    This dealers link has many more pictures There is no doubt about being the same car. Has the same picnic basket on the running board + many other amenities to make it a comfortable 1910 Touring driver
    https://www.vaultcars.com/1910-ford-model-t-touring/
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:30 pm

    new(?) body: $6000
    new(?) fenders splash aprons and running boards: $3000
    donor chassis, associated parts: $500
    Ruckstell, restored: $3500
    engine, transmission, restored: $6000
    chassis restoration: $2000
    leather interior, installed: $4000
    top, installed: $2500
    brass lights, trim, etc., restored: $3000
    Wheels, restored: $1600
    paint: $6000
    radiator: $1500
    Rocky Mountain brakes: $1000

    Investment: $40,600 (and I'll bet I'm low)
    asking price: $23,500
    Original 1910 Touring, restored to this level, average asking price: $48,000+

    people fooled into thinking this was a "real" 1910: Zero

    looks like a pretty spectacularly restored vehicle which no one should mind touring and maintaining with very pedestrian and easily and cheaply sourced parts. I'd own it in a NY second if I had the spare $ and then celebrate my good luck in having found it.

    You know, when I moved to WY, I saw magpies for the first time. Clever little fellows that we soon found to be constantly loud and obnoxious - constantly chattering and shrieking at each other for no apparent reason. Later we found out that they mostly picked carcass' of unfortunate creatures to pieces. They also have a habit of stealing building material from one magpie's nest and flying to the next tree to build their own. At least Model T owners don't dismantle their neighbors' houses (that I am yet aware of)...

    The Good Lord has blessed us with brains somewhat larger than a magpie's...so don't be a magpie.
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by AndyClary » Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:54 pm

    First, this car is very similar to the one Steve bought a couple years ago. Thus his curiosity if there was some connection.

    The modifications to thus car were made to enhance the owners driving experience. We have all done the same. From ruckstells to Kevlar bands to rubber fan belts. So yes it is a 1910 Ford, just not an authentic restoration.

    Andy


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    NorthSouth
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by NorthSouth » Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:59 pm

    -
    1911 Touring for sale

    MTFCA Forum, "Vehicles for Sale" Post by It's Bill » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:25 am

    Hello, I am selling my 1911 touring car. It has been totally rebuilt - original engine, transmission, and mag rebuilt by Joe Bell with Dubats crank and ring gear flywheel, Russ Potter straight through carb, Ron Petersen coils, rebuilt Ruckstell with all new internal castings, gears, bearings, shafts, and bronze thrust washer, totally and correctly rebuilt suspension front and rear, radiator rebuilt, AC brakes and wishbone reinforcing added for safety, and more and more and more. Everything on this car has gotten the treatment. This car is done. Needs nothing. There are only 30 miles on this since the engine rebuild, so you will need to retorque the head when you hit 100 miles.

    It is for sale through Classic Auto Mall in Morgantown PA. Offered at $35,000 - pennies on the dollars invested. This is a beautiful car set up for touring, and it drives, steers, and handles very well. Additional details and photos are available on the CAM website. You may contact me with any questions, but PLEASE, ONLY if you are serious. Tire kickers contact Classic Auto Mall.

    Cheers, Bill Hoffer
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    Topic author
    NorthSouth
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by NorthSouth » Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:08 am

    17142.jpg
    17142.jpg (43.96 KiB) Viewed 3737 times
    -
    1911 Ford Touring car FOR SALE, MTFCI Stynoski winner

    This 1911 ford was restored from a complete and correct example with known provenance dating to the 1950's. Restored in 2011, this car retains all of its original wood and body sheet metal.
    All equipment matches the factory shipping invoice with the exception of the carburetor. Winner of the 2011 Stynoski award for the best restoration of a Model T Ford by the Model T Ford Club International.
    Perfect in every detail. Although restored to Concours quality it is equipped for touring with:
    Scat balanced crank
    Stipe 280 cam
    Kevlar bands and turbo 400 clutch
    Runs smooth and is powerful too. It has been driven sparingly since 2011 and has never seen rain. Simply the finest early Ford to be found anywhere. Offered at $62,500
    Contact: Mark Cameron Owatonna, MN (507) 390-1080

    VERSUS
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    Last edited by NorthSouth on Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.


    1912touring
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by 1912touring » Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:05 pm

    That 1910 Touring is a beautiful car at a GREAT price.

    Scott - The magpies comment is perfect.
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by John kuehn » Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:14 pm

    Hadn’t seen Heckle and Jeckle in a while! Interesting to see them again. More than a few of our younger MTFCA folks probably hadn’t seen them before! A reminder of the good old days cartoons.

    A good illustration of folks who fit their description.


    ModelT46
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at this Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by ModelT46 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:20 pm

    Did this "1910" start life as a 1910? I beleive it is built up from later and from reproduction items. It is still a good value.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Been Here Before » Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:09 pm

    This discussion as to whether or not a car sold was a 1910 Model T is not needed. All Model T's look alike, and Henry knew this. Henry's solution to distinguishing a 1909 from a 1920 was by tracking the production number. And he wanted to make certain that every one was getting the year car they wanted by the number stamped on the motor block.

    He took great pains to inform the mechanics of the period to make certain that the integrity of a car was kept by keeping the production number.

    I am certain that I can easily change my 1922 into a 1915 or a 1925 by stamping the proper production number to the left side of the motor.

    We all know that the year of a car is that showing on the left side of the motor. At least that is what the article states.

    Why else would there be a list of motor numbers associate with the Ford cars from 1908 to 1927.

    I think I even heard of a 1947 Model T in existence.
    Scanfordnumbers.jpg


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:30 pm

    ...and so there you have it.

    Case closed, and no debate needed...think of the man hours wasted on research and Judging Guidelines!
    Scott Conger

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    NorthSouth
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by NorthSouth » Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:01 pm

    -
    Scott, Wait! Before you close this thread out, …does anyone, by shear chance, know who bought this 1910 Touring at this year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by TRDxB2 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:09 pm

    NorthSouth wrote:
    Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:01 pm
    -
    Scott, Wait! Before you close this thread out, …does anyone, by shear chance, know who bought this 1910 Touring at this year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?
    These guys know because they sold it to someone one AZ. See the links to their contact info in my posting above
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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by NorthSouth » Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:22 pm

    TRDxB2 wrote:
    Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:09 pm
    NorthSouth wrote:
    Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:01 pm
    -
    Scott, Wait! Before you close this thread out, …does anyone, by shear chance, know who bought this 1910 Touring at this year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?
    These guys know because they sold it to someone one AZ. See the links to their contact info in my posting above
    -
    Frank,
    Mr Jeff Hood, with the Long Beach Chapter, and the organizer of this year’s Long Beach Swap Meet, contacted the 1910’s seller. That vendor declined to either reveal the buyer or to pass my contact information onto the buyer. So, that is a dead end. This is why I posted the question here on the Forum.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by TXGOAT2 » Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:39 pm

    Declined, eh? Well, there ya go..... RUSSIANS!!!!!


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by jiminbartow » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:31 am

    With the continuing decrease in the dollar, the continuing increase in inflation (now at a 40 year high of almost 10%) and the coming recession (if it is not already here), it should be no surprise that Model T prices, along with everything else, will substantially rise as the economy continues to deteriorate. In an effort to save as much as possible, back in April, 2022, I had TD Ameritrade pull all of my investments from stocks until the economy stabilizes (in April, stocks were down 9%. Now, they are down 22%). With the disastrous policies being enacted, I see no relief anytime soon, but will only get worse and will, in my opinion, continue to decline for as long as 2 years, or until the next Presidential election and a change of government. Jim Patrick
    Last edited by jiminbartow on Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Been Here Before » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:47 am

    Numbers.

    Numbers are important to the value of your investment. If you are concerned about the value at sale of you Model T, a change in the year produced - based on vehicle number on the motor block, can be changed to a lower production, making the value of the car increase.

    Allow me to introduce you to a simple and true method to increase the value by lowering the model year.
    Z0J420fo5oystencil.JPG
    Z0J420fo5oystencil.JPG (31.22 KiB) Viewed 3068 times


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by Rajo23 » Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:18 pm

    Two burning questions that are pivotal to determining any level of authenticity that must be explored:

    What is the casting date of the engine?

    Is the frame appropriate for a 1910?

    If the engine casting date is later then 1910 and the frame is later, then calling this car a 1910 is a big fat lie. It may look like one, but it is not.
    Calling it a replica or a faux 1910, that is just fine.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by TXGOAT2 » Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:56 pm

    What if the frame has replacement crossmembers? What if the engine has other-than-original 1910 internal parts? An engine block and a frame is not a car, 1910 or otherwise, even if in factory original condition. The handful of people who are capable of identifying a strictly original 1910 Ford are about as numerous as strictly original 1910 Fords, if any strictly original 1910 Fords still exist. Given typical service conditions in the 1910 era, and the vast number of accessories available, and owner's propensity to modify their vehicles to suit their purposes, not to mention normal wear and abuse, "gyp" parts, and home brew repairs, I doubt if there were many strictly original 1910 Fords by 1920.


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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by ModelT46 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:15 pm

    I know of one very original 1910 Touring, a May of 1910 build, made within a day or two opf my 1910 Touring. A well know collector owns it. I have seen this T and it is a great T.

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    Re: Who Bought That 1910 Touring at This Year’s Long Beach Swap Meet?

    Post by RajoRacer » Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:17 pm

    I have a very large stick available if anyone feels the need to beat this thread up any more !!!

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