1912 Torpedo
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Topic author
1912 Torpedo
I have been trying to purchase a 1912 Torpedo from a guy and made him what I think is a generous but reasonable offer. The car is not mint, but fairly nice let's say a 7 out of 10. Needs tires, probably wheels should be redone as they are the originals, the upholstery looks good but not what I would consider a show car. It is painted black rather than the midnight blue. The paint has some issues, i.e., bubbling in one spot. There are no documents regarding any mechanical work and the car has not run for a few years since the passing of its owner.
On the plus side, the block APPEARS to be original, aluminum hogshead, Holley H-1 carb, the brass lamps are correct and in nice shape.
I know this is a tough question to answer, but what do you think the market would bear for this car? Sorry, I only have this one photo right now.
On the plus side, the block APPEARS to be original, aluminum hogshead, Holley H-1 carb, the brass lamps are correct and in nice shape.
I know this is a tough question to answer, but what do you think the market would bear for this car? Sorry, I only have this one photo right now.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
Nice looking car. If correct year parts, older restoration in nice shape and drivable... above $20,000. Original wheels are probably fine. "What the market will bear" has no bearing on this sale, if you want this car you will need to pay what the seller wants for it. A rare and desirable car is not going to go for a reasonable offer, the seller has all the leverage here in my opinion.
Last edited by Humblej on Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
My completely inexpert opinion: $25 grand, maybe more, if the car proves to be mostly correct and mostly Ford and not Bondo. Solid wheels and rims would be a plus, and a serviceable radiator would be a plus. Full lighting equipment another plus. Freedom from cracks/welds, extensive or poorly-done bodywork, a big plus. It looks very good (to me) in the pic.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
20,000 was my gut feeling. I looked on the net as you probably have and didn't find many with prices. One that looked like it might be nicer was $15,000-$20,000. One that was only partially assembled said the reserve was under $10,000. There are a lot of variables. If I had room I might consider one for 15-20.
It is fun to see it.
Rich
It is fun to see it.
Rich
When did I do that?
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
IMO, a '12 Torpedo is about the roomiest of Ford brass cars. Many HCCA touring guys are parking their orphan marque cars and buying cars like this to tour in. I feel this has affected the market some. As for establishing what is fair for you to pay, I often suggest to my customers to first tell me why you want that particular car. If you have a sentimental reason, then it only makes the value of the vehicle increase in your eyes. If it this vehicle not exactly what you want it to be, and those little issues you mentioned (weak paint, incorrect color, wheels, tires, etc.) are going to make you struggle, then my suggestion is keep looking unless you are willing to pay the extra amount for those upgrades.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
I believe the '11 Torpedo has more legroom !
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
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Last edited by JTT3 on Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
20k is a good price for a buyer. If I were selling, I'd ask 25K
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
1912 is a year of oddities for the model T. The engine serial number was moved at least three times. The timing gear cover changed a couple times and some of the year used that silly oil filler timer (which most restorers in the past changed out!). As I recall, at least two and maybe three different rear ends were used, with much of the last couple months of production using the 1913 style rear end!
The touring cars used at least five significantly different bodies! Although the torpedo and commercial roadsters weren't quite as bad.
I don't think any other year, other than 1909, had so much variation, and clearly early, middle, and late versions of the models!
But THAT is part of the charm of the 1912 model T! I love that year, and I love the 1912 torpedo roadster!
It does make for some extra evaluating of correctness, if that matters to someone. But anyone should evaluate that somewhat because it does affect future value as well. I do hope to see many more and better photos of this car! Either before or after a purchase is made?
Good luck! And I would say the value estimates of others are good. So long as the car is basically correct.
The touring cars used at least five significantly different bodies! Although the torpedo and commercial roadsters weren't quite as bad.
I don't think any other year, other than 1909, had so much variation, and clearly early, middle, and late versions of the models!
But THAT is part of the charm of the 1912 model T! I love that year, and I love the 1912 torpedo roadster!
It does make for some extra evaluating of correctness, if that matters to someone. But anyone should evaluate that somewhat because it does affect future value as well. I do hope to see many more and better photos of this car! Either before or after a purchase is made?
Good luck! And I would say the value estimates of others are good. So long as the car is basically correct.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
OH Boy, With those new pictures the dollars are adding UP!! This car looks Really nice and if you want a Torpedo and Especially a '12 I don't think you'll find very many that will look much better. This is also something to consider.. If this car is relative close to you That can easily add a few thousand to the price!
You haven't said what price you are thinking of offering? You'll be hard pressed to find one like this for anything under 20 in my opinion.
I hope you received my email and special ideas to you.
To John, Not many '11 Torpedos have ever sold like this one appears to be in the $25, range.
Good Luck and bid to own!!
You haven't said what price you are thinking of offering? You'll be hard pressed to find one like this for anything under 20 in my opinion.
I hope you received my email and special ideas to you.
To John, Not many '11 Torpedos have ever sold like this one appears to be in the $25, range.
Good Luck and bid to own!!
1912 Torpedo Roadster
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
Don Ellis, There is a piece of me that every time I see your photos of this "pile", I start wondering "if", "maybe", "could possibly"? I do have a project pile for a 1912 commercial roadster, which could be altered slightly into a "never actually produced" 1912 "open roadster" (I even have the gasoline tank!).
Unfortunately, however, my reality is that I have reached an age where the last thing I need is another project. Family circumstances forced me to sell all the decent cars I had, and all I have left is a few project cars and piles. While upgrading my 1912 project pile to a torpedo roadster is a very tempting idea? I have four (count them FOUR!) other project cars that would have to be nearly finished before I can even consider starting any work on the 1912 pile. And given the family situation, I doubt I have enough years left ahead to justify even considering adding much to the 1912 pile.
I keep hoping you find a good buyer willing and able to pay the fair price and able to do a fine restoration on a great original piece! I will envy the buyer.
But it cannot be me.
Unfortunately, however, my reality is that I have reached an age where the last thing I need is another project. Family circumstances forced me to sell all the decent cars I had, and all I have left is a few project cars and piles. While upgrading my 1912 project pile to a torpedo roadster is a very tempting idea? I have four (count them FOUR!) other project cars that would have to be nearly finished before I can even consider starting any work on the 1912 pile. And given the family situation, I doubt I have enough years left ahead to justify even considering adding much to the 1912 pile.
I keep hoping you find a good buyer willing and able to pay the fair price and able to do a fine restoration on a great original piece! I will envy the buyer.
But it cannot be me.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
What is the engine number?
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
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Last edited by JTT3 on Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
The paint might respond well to some refurbishment, especially if you could determine exactly what type of paint is has on it. The leather might also be brought up to snuff with some TLC. Wheel condition, if at least fair, can be considered in light of how much driving you intend to do. Tires, likewise, unless they are mis-matched or obviously shabby.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
Good catch on the Horn... But I'm not really sure but that it could be correct? Mine has a different horn but a later build. I think I'd be happy driving it after a good cleaning and the seats and top don't look too awful bad from what we can tell in the pictures. Just thinking a good wash job and an engine/coil tune up with some air in the tires and tightening of the wheel bolts she might run pretty nicely down the road again. You can then decide where and what things you might want to correct. Be nice to see another Torpedo out on tour!
1912 Torpedo Roadster
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
Looks like the seller made up his mind on price.. 45K. Currently listed on facebook and being shared around a number of groups.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
Looks like he really wants to keep it...
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
At 45 K, it would need to be perfect. I'd go as high as 25 K, if on-site inspection with an expert on hand justified it. A few high dollar or very scarce incorrect or missing parts can really cut into market value. That's fine if you want an authentic looking driver. Not good if you want a showpiece that will stand expert scrutiny.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
You can't catch out anyone paying way over what something is worth by starting at a reasonable valuation. likewise, you can't buy at a reasonable price if someone bites at an unreasonable price. I guess it comes back to how much you want it. The seller is testing the market. He could get lucky, or not.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
When you look at the photo showing the front view, (unless my eyes are playing tricks on me) isn't this car a Southern Wide Track ??
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Topic author
Re: 1912 Torpedo
At $45K, it would need to be museum quality, the best in existence. I have seen it first-hand, it is not anything like that so it came off my wish list long ago. Plus I bought a far better 1912 Roadster already.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
Congratulations!
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
Great news Greg! How about some pictures of your new '12 Roadster?
1912 Torpedo Roadster
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
"Worth" the value or usefulness of something to someone
Condition and provenance - looks aren't everything. Is the car worth more to the owner or the buyer because it has documented original brass headlights rather than the bill for quality reproductions from a US supplier. One needs to start at the maximum value of a perfect example and then work backwards by subtracting out the replacement costs of this and that, labor etc to arrive at an approximate value.
Coins and comic books all have condition grades to set a value against. Model T's don't
When the German Coast to Coast teams were here at Craig Beek's Model T Museum we discussed the cost of just painting the undercarriage/frame. Approximately $1,000 USD in the USA versus $4,000 USD in Germany.
Condition and provenance - looks aren't everything. Is the car worth more to the owner or the buyer because it has documented original brass headlights rather than the bill for quality reproductions from a US supplier. One needs to start at the maximum value of a perfect example and then work backwards by subtracting out the replacement costs of this and that, labor etc to arrive at an approximate value.
Coins and comic books all have condition grades to set a value against. Model T's don't
When the German Coast to Coast teams were here at Craig Beek's Model T Museum we discussed the cost of just painting the undercarriage/frame. Approximately $1,000 USD in the USA versus $4,000 USD in Germany.
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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Topic author
Re: 1912 Torpedo
I am buying the 12 Commercial Roadster that was originally owned by Ken Jones. I will post pictures once I get it! In the meantime, I need to find someone who is knowledgeable in particular about the 12 Commercial Roadster and can help answer some detail questions (there is some finishing to be done on the car, i.e., get a top made and installed)
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
It depends a lot on what you plan to do with your car. If you want to show it in shows which give awards for best of show then the closer to original condition or new old stock parts correct for that car as Henry built it. If you desire to drive it on tours, and not show it, then if it runs well, you have a good driver. Most people who see a Model T today, don't even know what it is. I have had people in a gas station, come up and ask, "Is this a '46?".
If you like it, buy it, because it's unlikely you will find another torpedo for sale. We had a nice one here in San Diego, and the owner decided to sell it. I don't think anyone in our local club knew it was for sale, until we found out he had sold it to someone in Australia! At least there was no fighting among locals.
Norm
If you like it, buy it, because it's unlikely you will find another torpedo for sale. We had a nice one here in San Diego, and the owner decided to sell it. I don't think anyone in our local club knew it was for sale, until we found out he had sold it to someone in Australia! At least there was no fighting among locals.
Norm
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
Greg, you will have a very nice car when it's finished. Ken put many hours researching this car and spent years collecting the correct parts. I'll send you a couple of names to call about getting the top done. Congratulations on your purchase!
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Topic author
Re: 1912 Torpedo
Thanks Kim, I suspect I will pester you from time to time with questions. First question is, do you know someone to contact that has a nicely and correctly done 12 Commercial Roadster with who I might communicate?
It boggles my mind that, lo these many years after I first met Ken in Washington state and helped him a bit with it, I would wind up with it. I think he would be happy.
It boggles my mind that, lo these many years after I first met Ken in Washington state and helped him a bit with it, I would wind up with it. I think he would be happy.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
Not for sale but much more than $45k investedTXGOAT2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:38 pmAt 45 K, it would need to be perfect. I'd go as high as 25 K, if on-site inspection with an expert on hand justified it. A few high dollar or very scarce incorrect or missing parts can really cut into market value. That's fine if you want an authentic looking driver. Not good if you want a showpiece that will stand expert scrutiny.
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
And the car in the pic is an '11, and I would think worth more than a '12 Torpedo.
I'd like to find one of those "strange looking" Torpedo horns for mine! Mine has an otherwise great triple twist Rubes to sell, but need to find that Torpedo horn first.
I'd like to find one of those "strange looking" Torpedo horns for mine! Mine has an otherwise great triple twist Rubes to sell, but need to find that Torpedo horn first.
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Re: 1912 Torpedo
They are still out there, but you can’t be shy and have to be quick with your wallet. Here’s one that sold for 600 last year.
https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... rn#p200518