Kevlar band

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Ralph F
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:09 pm
First Name: Ralph
Last Name: Fitz-Gerald
Location: Monkton, Vermont

Kevlar band

Post by Ralph F » Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:01 pm

I am have a problem with my 15 touring car not being able to pull a hill when I step on the low speed pedal. The motor and transmission were completely rebuilt . The car has kevlar bands and is possible that the low speed band has glazeover.
Thanks


Norman Kling
Posts: 4068
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
First Name: Norman
Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: Kevlar band

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:25 pm

For the first few hundred miles the bands must be re-adjusted a few times until everything settles into the band material. After that they should not need adjusting very often with Kevlar. Assuming that the low notch and cam are in good condition.
When you push the pedal down from the high gear position, it should go down about 2 inches before the shaft moves toward the right. From there down it should move right compressing the band. About 1 1/2 to 2 inches above the floorboard the band should be tight against the drum. Most problems people have with Kevlar is caused by the band being either too tight so it drags all the time, or too loose so it slips when you are in low. You should not feather out the low gear when you shift, but should instead, advance the throttle to the point the engine will not kill when you push down fast and hard. The band should be either in neutral or in gear, but not slipping between. So it would be a good idea at this time to remove the inspection plate and look at the drums. If they are bluish, it has been slipping and overheating. This could lead to cracked drums. Also have someone turn the crank slowly as you look at the drum. If you see a crack in the drum, you will need to replace the drum, but if it is not blue nor cracked you are probably OK.
If this is a left hand drive car, you adjust the band by turning the bolt at the right side of the hogshead. There is a large lock nut which must be loosened, then turn the shaft in by half turns at a time till you get the correct adjustment. If it is too tight when in the neutral position, you might need a new cam and notch. Always check the fit after you have the floorboard in place.
Norm


MichaelPawelek
Posts: 702
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:01 pm
First Name: Michael
Last Name: Pawelek
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919 Touring, 1925 Coupe
Location: Brookshire, Texas
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Kevlar band

Post by MichaelPawelek » Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:32 pm

During the rebuild if the worn knotches on the outside of the hogshead were not refurbished or replaced and the low pedal shaft not bent back to its original position no amount of adjustment to the low band will be adequate for great performance.


Lessumner
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:16 pm
First Name: Les
Last Name: Sumner
Location: Lapeer Mi
MTFCA Number: 18545
MTFCI Number: 9350

Re: Kevlar band

Post by Lessumner » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:17 pm

I purchased a T a friend of mine had restored several years ago and driven on many tours.The kevlar bands were adjusted properly, but engagement to low and the brake required very heavy foot pressure. I found the bands were glazed. After removing the material and flipping them over and re-riveted them, The bands have worked very good since.Les

User avatar

Craig Leach
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:22 am
First Name: craig
Last Name: leach
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919 Firetruck/1922 Speedster
Location: Laveen Az
MTFCA Number: 26647

Re: Kevlar band

Post by Craig Leach » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:17 pm

Hi Ralph,
Is the engine speeding up & not pulling or lugging & not pulling? If the engine is speeding up when in low & not pulling then the band is not applying enough to stop the drum. If the engine is lugging then there is a spark or fuel issue. And yes Kevlar bands will need to be adjusted several times before they seat in. I guess I should have asked is the car or engine new to you? If not how was it before?
Craig.


speedytinc
Posts: 3838
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Kevlar band

Post by speedytinc » Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:02 pm

Am thinking the first step is to check low band adjustment.
With the motor running, parking brake on. Turn in the adjustment screw until you hear a slight change in the triple gear's noise. Back off the adjustment 1/2 turn.
You are now optimally adjusted. Test drive. Any change in low lock up?


Allan
Posts: 5201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Kevlar band

Post by Allan » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:33 am

Two observations re slipping first gear bands.

Kevlar bands do need a series of adjustments as they settle in. Rather than adjust them up until you hear them load the drum and then backing off, I adjust them so they will just perform as they should on the road. I come at the adjustment from the loose side, rather than the tight side, so they have the maximum clearance between the drum and band. That way there is less chance of drag and overheating of the drum. On settling, the process needs to be repeated, maybe three or four times, each time taking them up just enough to make it work as it should. A void the temptation to give it 1/2 a turn more to save having to make another adjustment soon.

Bending the pedal back on our RHD cars is a stopgap fix, unless the pedal has really been bent. Too often it is bent back to compensate for worn pedal ramps which cause too much freeplay in the pedal. I understand that on LHD cars all you need to do is replace the notch and the bolt-in ramp to restore the correct pedal hight/clearance.The pedal ramps and notches need to be attended to first, before any pedal bending is contemplated.

Allan from down under.


Topic author
Ralph F
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:09 pm
First Name: Ralph
Last Name: Fitz-Gerald
Location: Monkton, Vermont

Re: Kevlar band

Post by Ralph F » Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:13 pm

Thanks for all of the suggestion. This transmission was fully rebuilt new bushing, new jack rabbit clutch, new clutch spring, and the lists goes on. I have gone back and check the bands and look for anything that show excess wear. There is nothing in the transmission screen. This weekend is our annual three orchard tour. I will giver a try and see how it goes.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Kevlar band

Post by TXGOAT2 » Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:49 pm

The pedal should not go to the floor, and it is necessary to apply firm, steady pressure to the pedal to prevent slippage. Model Ts do not need thick motor oil. Ford recommended the equivalent of 20W oil. Low gear in a T is only good for about 8 MPH. Engine torque peaks at about 900 RPM, which would be about 20-22 MPH in high gear, and about 7-8 MPH in low.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6428
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Kevlar band

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:56 pm

Ralph

if you give 'er a try, without solving the slipping problem, you are going to get a chance to re-rebuild your transmission.

you've received very good advice, been asked good questions, and told a very good method of getting the low band adjusted. You have not indicated that you've taken any advice, have answered no questions, and not indicated that you have made any adjustments.

If you had problems before your tour, exactly why should things now be fine for your tour under these circumstances?

I wish you the very best, but I am not even sure why you asked for help in the first place?

You asked if the bands could be glazed...with no explanation for the number of miles you've racked up, how would anyone be able to answer? One thing is for sure: if you continue to slip low band, chances increase that you could glaze the band...if you do, that would be the best of two possible bad outcomes.

Please consider asking someone at the tour for help in adjusting your bands.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


John kuehn
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: Kevlar band

Post by John kuehn » Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:32 pm

Driving your T with a slipping low speed will heat the drum up fairly quick and with Kevlar bands they will heat the drum up pretty quick with it slipping.

Something will give and it won’t be the Kevlar low speed band material. Transmission drums are around 300.00 and up,depending who you buy from plus the extra fun you’ll have pulling the engine out and apart to be able to replace it.

It may not be a slipping low speed but it sure sounds like it. If you go to the event and try to drive it ask the others there with their T’s and see what they say. Good luck and hope it’s something fairly easy to fix.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic