MTFCA Forum

I have a couple of questions before I install engine onto the frame.

I painted the front engine mount. Should I lubricate it before installing the engine?

I have not painted the ball at the end of the wishbone. Should I lubricate it?

How did the factory tighten the shackle bolts and the front and rear engine mount bolts?

I'd put some grease on the front engine mount and on the wishbone ball. The pan snout is supposed to be able to move in the front motor mount, like a connecting rod on the crank pin. If you use the stock type rear motor mounts that have wood blocks between the pan arms and the frame, do not tighten the bolts that goe through the wood blocks. It needs to be snug, just a little more than finger tight. The bolt that holds to pan arm to the top of the frame rail needs to be tight.

Good thing you asked - Pat explained it well. People often forget that the frame flexes and the engine mounts need to be able to move a little.

When it comes to the wishbone ball I use a really clingy grease as there is no way to grease the ball without partial disassembly. Also remember that the nuts securing the cap on the wishbone ball must be secured using safety wire as the studs can turn out otherwise.

Here are some photos on how the mounting blocks slip in. There is a short bolt that goes through the top of the ear and the nut secures the short bolt just under the top chassis ear. There is a long bolt the goes all the way through the wall of the chassis, through the wood block and through the ear where the nut secures the long bolt. The angle of the block goes against the inside corner formed by the bottom chassis ear and chassis wall. This angle opening was cut there for the fuel line to pass through on its way to the carb, on cars with the underseat gas tank. Jim Patrick

Are you going to put spring clamps on each spring to keep the leafs lined up? Those protrusions in the top of the clamps go into the holes on top of one of the leafs. Jim Patrick

Jim, My grandson pointed out me that I had not installed the spring clips. They are now in place. The engine is now in stalled by son and grandson!

Bruce, Just a note on your next to last engine installation picture. The engine side of the ball cap at the transmission gets a gasket but the drive shaft tube ball side of the ball cap gets no gasket. If you leave that gasket on the drive shaft tube ball side you may find that the drive shaft cap fit will be a little loose and make a raddling noise in use.

Double copy deleted .

The spring clips are important. You don't want to omit them. Another thing to check is to see whether the corners of the pan arms are touching the edge of the upper frame flange when the engine is installed. There needs to be some clearance at that point, or the pan arms are apt to wear notches in the edge of the frame flange, which can lead to the frame cracking. If there is less than about 1/32" of clearance, I'd put a flat washer or two between the top of the pan arm and the frame. (See pic 4 above; look just above the wood block.)

If that blue RTV gasket compound on the fourth main ball joint has set up in that rough condition, it will prevent a good seal. You will need to scrape it off and re-apply it. I use the gaskets along with the RTV gasket compound and do half at a time. In this case, I would apply the RTV to the rear of the engine, line up the gasket with the four bolts and bolt the ball portion half in place. I then tighten the bolts and let it setup overnight. Installing all gaskets in this fashion, one half at a time will keep half the gasket securely in place, allowing you plenty of time to align the two halves. Once aligned, RTV can be applied to the other half and the other half of the piece secured and tightened. Jim Patrick

no real harm, I suppose, but no gasket or sealant goes there anyway...it will only serve to keep the ball coupling off of the ball and lead to looseness/rattles. The only seal is the OTHER side of the 4th main, and the engine builder has sealed that when the alignment was set.

Engine rebuilder installed a gasket on the engine side of the fourth main. I placed the RTV on the other side and immediately tighten up the four bolts.

As long as you tighten it up before the sealer has set, it will be ok. There is no seal in the ball joint around the drive shaft, so you might get some drips there. Actually it might be a good thing if you drip some in that area, because if it is too tightly sealed, any oil which makes it beyond the 4th main and the grease in the U joint will go all the way to the differential and dilute the grease there.
Norm

Blue rtv is a poor product where hot oil is involved. I have seen it soften to mush & leak. Use ultra black.

John, How hot does the grease, in the ball joint, get?

BLB27 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:53 pm

John, How hot does the grease, in the ball joint, get?

Engine temp.
Plus, unless you have a tight 4th main bearing that is perfectly centered to a perfectly running output shaft, its getting washed with a constant stream of hot oil.

Do you know if you have one of these? Just shine a light into the shaft.

I always use “The Right Stuff”… another black oil/heat proof RTV, as good as, or better than Ultra Black. Jim Patrick

Click to enlarge.

John and Jim, You like the black, what about the red RTV?

Frank, I can't look into the shaft. The ball joint is bolted up. I would assume engine rebuilders install the plug as part of the rebuild.

Bruce

I have never used the red, but there was alot of discussion on the best RTV’s in 2010 and I based my decision to select “The Right Stuff” on the recommendations of many of the most respected experts on the forum at the time. I happened to be overhauling my 1926 Coupe engine at the time and do not regret my decision, as my engine still does not leak. Of course the way I aligned the parts of my engine and the meticulous method I used to install my engine gaskets 12 years ago has a lot to do with the lack of leaks.

In 2012, I received a request to post the method by which I installed gaskets in my engine that made it virtually leak free, even now, 12 years later. The method is time consuming, but it is worth it to keep your model T from marking its’ territory.
See: www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/313252.html. Jim Patrick