Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
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Topic author - Posts: 1459
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- First Name: Darel
- Last Name: Leipold
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring
- Location: Excelsior MN
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Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
There is a fantasy 1910 T touring on Hemmings auction. I do not see any 1910 parts on this car. The brass is all reproductions. The chasis is much later. The repro fenders are the wrong style. The body is a new build and all wrong. The current bid is $15,000 which is all it might be worth. Take a look and have a good laugh.
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Topic author - Posts: 1459
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
Here is a photo.
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- 91537834.jpg (49.02 KiB) Viewed 2958 times
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
While I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, even I can see some of the peculiarities. Is this one more like it should be?
Last edited by 1925 Touring on Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The future of our hobby does not depend as much on youth, but on the future of internal combustion.
The past is only simple because hindsight is 20/20.
The past is only simple because hindsight is 20/20.
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Topic author - Posts: 1459
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
Yes the second picture is of a more correct 1910. The color is wrong, all or most all were painted brewster green. 1909s were mostly red, but there were some pearl gray 09s and tens.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
It sure is a clean looking build with a lot of money and work invested. You get that early car look with the ease of a late T and A transmission. Not for the purist but it's pretty neat and it looks like a lot of fun!
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
I suspect many of these early, not totally original, cars were built for the enjoyment of someone who has passed away. Heirs only know it was Grandpa's 1910 and market as such. Hopefully the buyer will recognize its not truly original and bid as such.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
It’s worth every bit of 15k! You couldn’t piece together a 1910 STYLE early model T replica in the same shape for less than that if you started with nothing but a dream to have a 1910 styled touring. I think the current bid is reflective that most folks understand that it is not original. I do believe that the lead in to the cars description lends itself to implying that it is a legit 1910 but once you read the description of the accoutrements, for most car people, it’s clear that it is not an overall 1910 original T. When you view the pictures most early vehicle folks can begin to evaluate what it is with ease.
Maybe they are out there but in reality how many close to complete 1910’s are there for let’s say under 20k unrestored?
The old saying “if it looks to good to be true……
I totally understand though someone wanting a 1910 but not the financial resources to buy one, then deciding to replicate one because they like the style. Blessed to be the caretaker of several early Ts I know for a fact not every part on them are original to the cars but many if not most are. In addition unless you just luck up on finding usable original early parts at a swap meet etc , you’re going to pay a premium for them. Generally speaking those that have those parts know what they have. I’m confident that if there are any original 1909-1911 T’s the number is probably a single digit number. Original meaning what came on the vehicle has not been refreshed, replaced or modified, not including the air in the tires ha. If you want an early style T to drive around and have fun with that T would be something to consider. If you’re not a little nervous, when you drive an early T, hoping nothing major happens, I commend you.
Maybe they are out there but in reality how many close to complete 1910’s are there for let’s say under 20k unrestored?
The old saying “if it looks to good to be true……
I totally understand though someone wanting a 1910 but not the financial resources to buy one, then deciding to replicate one because they like the style. Blessed to be the caretaker of several early Ts I know for a fact not every part on them are original to the cars but many if not most are. In addition unless you just luck up on finding usable original early parts at a swap meet etc , you’re going to pay a premium for them. Generally speaking those that have those parts know what they have. I’m confident that if there are any original 1909-1911 T’s the number is probably a single digit number. Original meaning what came on the vehicle has not been refreshed, replaced or modified, not including the air in the tires ha. If you want an early style T to drive around and have fun with that T would be something to consider. If you’re not a little nervous, when you drive an early T, hoping nothing major happens, I commend you.
Last edited by JTT3 on Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
for the Magpies that don't know how to search for this to pick it apart, here it is: https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1910-f ... l-t-532879
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
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Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
But it Does have a low head and brass hub fan
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
It’s a nice looking car. I’d own and drive that fantasy.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
As fantasy early brass Ts go, this one isn't all that bad. It certainly is better looking than the over-grown Shriner's roadster shared a couple weeks ago. the general look of the car is good, in spite of nothing being really right. If someone decided to call it a 1911, even the fenders would be close. Of course that makes the color red even more wrong by one more year? But there are so many red 1910 through 1915 model T touring cars anyway? The body's dimensions and offsets aren't right (and that square cornered door!), but for a fantasy car it looks okay.
The Madison Avenue writeup turns me off more than the car does!
The Madison Avenue writeup turns me off more than the car does!
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
What is "original"?
At first its called a "barn find", then a "survivor", ... 16 video segments have been made documenting its cleaning, repairing, replacement of top, seat material, etc as instructional training aids & establishing provenance of this vehicle being maintained to its "Original" what? Purchased, when driven into the shed, it no longer looks like the barn find or a survivor, is it now re-manufactured, restored , rebuilt? None of those "r" words indicate that 99% of the "parts" are original to the vehicle - how important is that?
This car that sat in a shed from 1915 until 2018. The history per the original owners son said his Dad lost control of the car and dented a front fender. Then drove it into the shed below in 1915.
-- -- The first picture is the Ford dealership where the car was originally purchased (its not one of those cars)
The picture below it is the same building now the City Hall of the Town. The Model T is "The T" --
--
The T was completed this year , more photo's of it are available as it is available for purchase
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This is the car back at the shop prior to "Maintaining its aesthetic appearance" & mechanicals --
The process to "Maintaining its aesthetic appearance" begins -
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The T was completed this year, more pictures area available as is the car
At first its called a "barn find", then a "survivor", ... 16 video segments have been made documenting its cleaning, repairing, replacement of top, seat material, etc as instructional training aids & establishing provenance of this vehicle being maintained to its "Original" what? Purchased, when driven into the shed, it no longer looks like the barn find or a survivor, is it now re-manufactured, restored , rebuilt? None of those "r" words indicate that 99% of the "parts" are original to the vehicle - how important is that?
This car that sat in a shed from 1915 until 2018. The history per the original owners son said his Dad lost control of the car and dented a front fender. Then drove it into the shed below in 1915.
-- -- The first picture is the Ford dealership where the car was originally purchased (its not one of those cars)
The picture below it is the same building now the City Hall of the Town. The Model T is "The T" --
--
The T was completed this year , more photo's of it are available as it is available for purchase
--
This is the car back at the shop prior to "Maintaining its aesthetic appearance" & mechanicals --
The process to "Maintaining its aesthetic appearance" begins -
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The T was completed this year, more pictures area available as is the car
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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Topic author - Posts: 1459
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
The green is nice, but the paint hides the grain of an original varnish .
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
Another point to consider, most people don’t have 60k + to spend on a restored original 1909, but will enjoy the reproduction or fantasy all the same while bringing some new badly needed blood into the hobby.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
What purpose does bashing another person's car on a public forum serve this hobby?
I guess it just makes some folks feel mighty superior to others.
Good grief guys...
I guess it just makes some folks feel mighty superior to others.
Good grief guys...
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
In trying to make our cars correct we notice things that aren't right or the way we think they should be in other cars. It's part of learning and human nature. Some comments are taken as criticism and some really is.
I fully expected more complaints about some of the details of my own cars from certain members. They have either been very polite or didn't notice.
It is good to point out details for prospective buyers I suppose. How we present things or how they are taken can seem offensive. It's the nature of the beast.
I try not to offend members when I express opinions, but my communication skills still need some work. This forum has improved that way over the years, I think.
Hoping for the best. I love all the pictures.
Rich
I fully expected more complaints about some of the details of my own cars from certain members. They have either been very polite or didn't notice.
It is good to point out details for prospective buyers I suppose. How we present things or how they are taken can seem offensive. It's the nature of the beast.
I try not to offend members when I express opinions, but my communication skills still need some work. This forum has improved that way over the years, I think.
Hoping for the best. I love all the pictures.
Rich
When did I do that?
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
I was not trying to talk down the car, I guess I never looked at it in that light, of wanting an old looking car that looks genuine to the everyday stranger. whoever did the work, sure did a great job. It's a very pretty car. I have seen some brass era cars that have gone for 60,000 online, and this would be a great option for someone who wants an old looking Model T (Old model T ) without paying what a new car would cost. I hope whoever gets the car enjoys it.
I believe as long as the buyer knows that it is not a genuine purist T, then to each his own.
https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1910-f ... l-t-532879 hope the link works
<img src="https://thumbor-production-auction.hemm ... 536786.jpg" alt="https://thumbor-production-auction.hemm ... 536786.jpg"/>
<img src="https://thumbor-production-auction.hemm ... 537798.jpg" alt="https://thumbor-production-auction.hemm ... 537798.jpg"/>
I wonder how much cheaper the car was to restore to non purist condition instead of going through parts and finding the correct pieces.
I think that the car would be a great option for driving an Old T around the dirt roads without the thought of ruining an original car.
Looks like the builder wanted functionality and convenience with the look of an early Model T. I can understand that.
I believe as long as the buyer knows that it is not a genuine purist T, then to each his own.
https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1910-f ... l-t-532879 hope the link works
<img src="https://thumbor-production-auction.hemm ... 536786.jpg" alt="https://thumbor-production-auction.hemm ... 536786.jpg"/>
<img src="https://thumbor-production-auction.hemm ... 537798.jpg" alt="https://thumbor-production-auction.hemm ... 537798.jpg"/>
I wonder how much cheaper the car was to restore to non purist condition instead of going through parts and finding the correct pieces.
I think that the car would be a great option for driving an Old T around the dirt roads without the thought of ruining an original car.
Looks like the builder wanted functionality and convenience with the look of an early Model T. I can understand that.
The future of our hobby does not depend as much on youth, but on the future of internal combustion.
The past is only simple because hindsight is 20/20.
The past is only simple because hindsight is 20/20.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
If you want to buy a complete, turn-key, correct car, you'd better make sure you know exactly what one is. That's true for vehicles from any era. "Clones" abound. Genuinely rare and original Ts are rare, and usually priced accordingly. Accurate restorations of any T are expensive. Heck, it's getting pretty expensive just to restore an empty gas tank to a full one, and period-correct gasoline is very hard to find.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
When I built my 1909? I had about $7000 in it. I bought new sheet metal, radiator, windshield and top irons. The brass lights and acetylene generator were picked up at swap meets and restored with some homemade parts. I spent a lot of time researching and drawing up body plans. The chassis is mainly 1913-14 with a 1920 engine that was rebuilt in the 60s and used in my Speedster until a crankshaft broke. The babbit was fitted to another crankshaft. I crafted the top and seats myself with new springs. I don't try to pass it off as original but believe it is very close looking to one. I can drive it without worries of ruining more valuable parts. Most folks that see it or ride in it don't know or care about the discrepancies. Since I can never afford some of the cars I would like to have this is a great compromise for me. We have enjoyed it for 20 years and a few thousand miles. I have a 1907 Buick which we have only driven a few hundred miles in the same amount of time because of its rarity. To me it is the best of both worlds.1925 Touring wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:06 amI wonder how much cheaper the car was to restore to non purist condition instead of going through parts and finding the correct pieces.
When did I do that?
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
That is a very nice touring car! I love the look of the Brass Model T's and hope to own one like yours someday.I don't try to pass it off as original but believe it is very close looking to one. I can drive it without worries of ruining more valuable parts. Most folks that see it or ride in it don't know or care about the discrepancies. Since I can never afford some of the cars I would like to have this is a great compromise for me. We have enjoyed it for 20 years and a few thousand miles. I have a 1907 Buick which we have only driven a few hundred miles in the same amount of time because of its rarity. To me it is the best of both worlds.
I think that is the beauty of this car. (The topic car.) I didn't think much of it before, but as you go through the pictures online, yes, there are a lot of parts that are not period correct. But as Rich said above, as did I, that is the beauty of this car. You have the Early Brass Era car look, but without (as much) worry of ruining as many early parts. (Not to say we should go out abusing 26-27 T's, or any in general.) It would be able to go on tours, or go a few hundred miles, and have fun.
As long as the new owners like it!
The future of our hobby does not depend as much on youth, but on the future of internal combustion.
The past is only simple because hindsight is 20/20.
The past is only simple because hindsight is 20/20.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
The longer I'm in this game the more tolerant I am of fantasy cars, parts salads, and other T's that aren't strictly kosher, as long as they're not misrepresented. People often ask if my 1915 is "original", whatever that means. I take it to mean factory stock for its year. I tell them I cheat on a few things, but it's mostly stock.
I do object to misrepresentation, but I think that's often due to honest ignorance.
I do object to misrepresentation, but I think that's often due to honest ignorance.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
Caveat emptor.
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Topic author - Posts: 1459
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
The current bid is $25,000 and the reserve is not made. It ends on Monday, Oct 3 at 3 p.m.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
Steve I think you car is a 95% car. Meaning it’s like my cars which you haven’t seen.
Mine are a good 95% percent car which is a correct body,engine, and chassis wise but the details aren’t 100% correct. After a few years from new lots of Model T’s had parts that fit but and lost their standing because they looked are were made a little different.
Mine are a good 95% percent car which is a correct body,engine, and chassis wise but the details aren’t 100% correct. After a few years from new lots of Model T’s had parts that fit but and lost their standing because they looked are were made a little different.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
As I stated in my previous post that this “1910” styled touring was a good deal at 15k but at $31500.00 at close, that post seems a bit naive. I guess the buyer will be very happy if they understood what they were buying, at least I hope so. One thing that did bother me was the agent selling the vehicle flagged & blocked from sight the comments of a few people trying to share good information based on their experience of what this vehicle WAS & wasn’t. That bothers me. I know I can’t have it both ways so here’s an apology for my foolish belief that people buying early vehicles for the most part know what to look for. Best John
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
To each his own I guess? If the buyer knew what he was buying and it was what he wanted? Fine. If he suckered on the hype and was clueless to the facts of what it wasn't? I don't know. A fool and his money maybe? We/I have long said that any collectables, one needs to know what they are dealing with. The differences between a fifty thousand dollar treasure and a ten thousand dollar POS can be subtle.
Me personally? I would much rather have a mostly correct era 1915 than a totally fake 1910. In the past few months I have seen at least four decent 1915 Ts available for around $15,000. At least two of them have sold!
I don't have a problem with nicely done tribute/tour cars. As long as they are not being misrepresented.
Me personally? I would much rather have a mostly correct era 1915 than a totally fake 1910. In the past few months I have seen at least four decent 1915 Ts available for around $15,000. At least two of them have sold!
I don't have a problem with nicely done tribute/tour cars. As long as they are not being misrepresented.
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Topic author - Posts: 1459
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
I feel sorry for the buyer. This T is now so widely known as a fake, that if the buyer exhibits it as a1910., viewers know that it is not a 1910. They will meet constant comments that it is not what they call it. The probably will have to call, "The famous Fake". (And it not a good fake, more of a silly one.) Well built and does probably drive well.
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
It's widely known as a fake among the 100+ or so people who have read this thread. The incredibly vast number of people who own Model Ts or will someday own a Model T must outnumber readers here by 1000:1 or more - even among MTFCA members.
The new owner's secret is pretty safe
The new owner's secret is pretty safe
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
I am amazed at the amount of speculation concerning the "Fantasy 1910". Here's why.
Notice the Title given to the car at auction "Restored Brass Era 1910 Ford Model T Touring" It does not say Restored 1910.
11 people bid on it for whatever reason they may have had. It is pure speculation that the bidders didn't know what the car is or what its true worth was as a true 1910 or as it has been configured given the documentation inn the listing. Further we have no idea what he/she may intend to use it for. For example for the same purchase price would you be comfortable driving a perfectly restored 1910 Touring in a 4th of July Parade in a NYC or the Fantasy 1910. Likely the new owner was looking for a driver rather than a trailer queen
The bidding tells a story as well:
A minor bidding war started between Wit & Jimbo likely triggered by muckovitch. Wit bid on it 5 times and threw in his max bid near the end
The bidding history
Final Bid $30,000 10/3/22 at 3:36PM by Wit
$26,500 10/3/22 at 3:32PM by Jimbo
$26,000 10/3/22 at 2:12PM by Wit
$25,500 10/3/22 at 2:09PM by Jimbo
$25,000 10/2/22 at 8:00AM by Wit
$24,001 10/1/22 at 6:21PM by muckovitch < jumps in out of the blue
$21,250 10/1/22 at 9:28AM by radar54
$21,000 9/29/22 at 8:22PM by Jimbo
$20,000 9/29/22 at 7:28PM by Wit
$18,800 9/20/22 at 5:22PM by baricmgt
$18,000 9/20/22 at 4:20PM by plante
$15,000 9/19/22 at 4:43PM by Wit
$10,250 9/19/22 at 3:50PM by Crider83
$10,000 9/19/22 at 3:37PM by Wit
$5,000 9/19/22 at 3:34PM by Wit
$4,000 9/19/22 at 3:05PM by decker
$3,400 9/19/22 at 2:59PM by partz423
$3,300 9/19/22 at 2:47PM by Crider83
$3,200 9/19/22 at 2:47PM by partz423
$3,100 9/19/22 at 2:23PM by Crider83
$2,100 9/19/22 at 9:26AM by OldCracker
$2,000 9/19/22 at 9:14AM by Kanwar48
Then there is the description of the car included in t he offering https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1910-f ... l-t-532879
POWERTRAIN
The 177-cu. in. L-head inline-four cylinder engine that powered Ford Model Ts was rated by the manufacturer at 20 horsepower when new, with 83 lb-ft of torque at 900 rpm. The seller notes that the engine in this car originated from a 1917 Model T and was thoroughly rebuilt during the restoration. A three-speed manual transmission from a Ford Model A was also installed during the restoration, “to increase low speed drivability and assist in hilly terrain.” The engine is said to start with no smoke and idle very well. No leaks or weeps are reported. The transmission “shifts fine,” with no unwanted noises.
CHASSIS
Photos of the undercarriage appear to show that it has been restored and maintained to the same high standards as the exterior and interior portions of this fine Model T. The rudimentary transverse leaf springs on both the front and rear axles reveal a suspension design that Ford continued to utilize until postwar years. No modifications have been made to the undercarriage, and no suspension service has been needed since the restoration. No issues are reported either with the brakes that “can lock up the wheels.” The 30-inch wooden spoke wheels are finished in red with black pin stripes matching the body and fenders, and appear to show no signs of damage. The Firestone Gum-Dipped tires are described as 12 years old but appearing to be “like new."
Notice the Title given to the car at auction "Restored Brass Era 1910 Ford Model T Touring" It does not say Restored 1910.
11 people bid on it for whatever reason they may have had. It is pure speculation that the bidders didn't know what the car is or what its true worth was as a true 1910 or as it has been configured given the documentation inn the listing. Further we have no idea what he/she may intend to use it for. For example for the same purchase price would you be comfortable driving a perfectly restored 1910 Touring in a 4th of July Parade in a NYC or the Fantasy 1910. Likely the new owner was looking for a driver rather than a trailer queen
The bidding tells a story as well:
A minor bidding war started between Wit & Jimbo likely triggered by muckovitch. Wit bid on it 5 times and threw in his max bid near the end
The bidding history
Final Bid $30,000 10/3/22 at 3:36PM by Wit
$26,500 10/3/22 at 3:32PM by Jimbo
$26,000 10/3/22 at 2:12PM by Wit
$25,500 10/3/22 at 2:09PM by Jimbo
$25,000 10/2/22 at 8:00AM by Wit
$24,001 10/1/22 at 6:21PM by muckovitch < jumps in out of the blue
$21,250 10/1/22 at 9:28AM by radar54
$21,000 9/29/22 at 8:22PM by Jimbo
$20,000 9/29/22 at 7:28PM by Wit
$18,800 9/20/22 at 5:22PM by baricmgt
$18,000 9/20/22 at 4:20PM by plante
$15,000 9/19/22 at 4:43PM by Wit
$10,250 9/19/22 at 3:50PM by Crider83
$10,000 9/19/22 at 3:37PM by Wit
$5,000 9/19/22 at 3:34PM by Wit
$4,000 9/19/22 at 3:05PM by decker
$3,400 9/19/22 at 2:59PM by partz423
$3,300 9/19/22 at 2:47PM by Crider83
$3,200 9/19/22 at 2:47PM by partz423
$3,100 9/19/22 at 2:23PM by Crider83
$2,100 9/19/22 at 9:26AM by OldCracker
$2,000 9/19/22 at 9:14AM by Kanwar48
Then there is the description of the car included in t he offering https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1910-f ... l-t-532879
POWERTRAIN
The 177-cu. in. L-head inline-four cylinder engine that powered Ford Model Ts was rated by the manufacturer at 20 horsepower when new, with 83 lb-ft of torque at 900 rpm. The seller notes that the engine in this car originated from a 1917 Model T and was thoroughly rebuilt during the restoration. A three-speed manual transmission from a Ford Model A was also installed during the restoration, “to increase low speed drivability and assist in hilly terrain.” The engine is said to start with no smoke and idle very well. No leaks or weeps are reported. The transmission “shifts fine,” with no unwanted noises.
CHASSIS
Photos of the undercarriage appear to show that it has been restored and maintained to the same high standards as the exterior and interior portions of this fine Model T. The rudimentary transverse leaf springs on both the front and rear axles reveal a suspension design that Ford continued to utilize until postwar years. No modifications have been made to the undercarriage, and no suspension service has been needed since the restoration. No issues are reported either with the brakes that “can lock up the wheels.” The 30-inch wooden spoke wheels are finished in red with black pin stripes matching the body and fenders, and appear to show no signs of damage. The Firestone Gum-Dipped tires are described as 12 years old but appearing to be “like new."
Last edited by TRDxB2 on Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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- Posts: 1419
- Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:29 pm
- First Name: Ed
- Last Name: Martin
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1909 Touring
- Location: Idaho
Re: Fantasy 1910 on Hemmings
I hope the new owner enjoys it. It’s a nice modified T that I’d have no problem owning and driving. My only complaint is that Hemmings should have noted this was a representation of a 1910, made with parts from a variety of years. Somebody paid what they thought it was worth, and that’s their business. I’ve seen interesting A tranny conversions before.