Change Timing Gear
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Topic author - Posts: 96
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- First Name: John
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Change Timing Gear
I want to replace the aluminum timing with an original steel one.
Is it as simple and pulling off the aluminum gear and pushing on the steel gear?
Is the timing gear "pressed" on? That would make swapping the gear MUCH more difficult.
Is it as simple and pulling off the aluminum gear and pushing on the steel gear?
Is the timing gear "pressed" on? That would make swapping the gear MUCH more difficult.
John Aldrich
Typical Model T Addict
Typical Model T Addict
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Re: Change Timing Gear
am curious as to why you'd want to do this?
not a particularly insurmountable job, but can get involved if things don't go your way...what is the effort vs benefit analysis of this job??
not a particularly insurmountable job, but can get involved if things don't go your way...what is the effort vs benefit analysis of this job??
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Topic author - Posts: 96
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Re: Change Timing Gear
The aluminum timing gear is super noisy to the point that during a 2 day T run last week folks were asking me why my engine was so noisy.
It is obnoxiously loud which is why I want to change it.
It is obnoxiously loud which is why I want to change it.
John Aldrich
Typical Model T Addict
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Re: Change Timing Gear
Does your car have a generator? I suggest that you replace both gears as a set. Timing gears depend on good cam bearings and main bearings to run correctly. Generator drive gear clearance can be adjusted, if necessary.
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Re: Change Timing Gear
Did you find a stash of NOS gears? If not, why would you put on a used/worn gear? Are you aware of the gear teeth tolerance/fit? Its real tight, like .002" for iron
If you dont like the aluminum gear, is it because its noisy or clangy due to wear or the necessary looser fit due to expansion?
The best answer, IMHO, would be to get a Dan Mceachern bronze gear. Accurately cut to new specs & low expansion allowing for a tighter gear mesh. .004" for bronze. Available in over & under sizes. (Follows Dan's recommendation.)
To answer your question, the job is rather simple.(see your service manual) You need to pull the radiator, crank pulley & timing cover.
You need a good tool to fit the gear nut. There are a variety, but it must fit tight with no slip to bugger the thin edges.
You may find your crank gear has a lot of wear also. If that needs replacing, the pan has to be separated from the motor which realistically means a motor removal.
If you dont like the aluminum gear, is it because its noisy or clangy due to wear or the necessary looser fit due to expansion?
The best answer, IMHO, would be to get a Dan Mceachern bronze gear. Accurately cut to new specs & low expansion allowing for a tighter gear mesh. .004" for bronze. Available in over & under sizes. (Follows Dan's recommendation.)
To answer your question, the job is rather simple.(see your service manual) You need to pull the radiator, crank pulley & timing cover.
You need a good tool to fit the gear nut. There are a variety, but it must fit tight with no slip to bugger the thin edges.
You may find your crank gear has a lot of wear also. If that needs replacing, the pan has to be separated from the motor which realistically means a motor removal.
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Re: Change Timing Gear
Do you know if your engine has the original type felt/rope front seal or a modern
metal/rubber lip seal? Removing the front plate presents more challenges with the modern seal.
Remember to center your front plate with a centering tool when reassembling.
Harry
metal/rubber lip seal? Removing the front plate presents more challenges with the modern seal.
Remember to center your front plate with a centering tool when reassembling.
Harry
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Re: Change Timing Gear
Wish I'd heard it running last weekend. I remember you mentioning it. Remove the generator and look at the cam gear to verify extreme gear wear - how long ago did I replace it ?
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Re: Change Timing Gear
I think you can see enough of the gear looking thru the oil filler hole on generator motors.
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Re: Change Timing Gear
Be sure to align the timing marks on the gears! If you just put the gear on without that alignment, the engine won't run. My first car was a Model A and it has similar gears to a T. I didn't know anything about aligning the gears and it wouldn't start even coasting down a hill. Just good thing there was an auto garage downhill from me and I parked in front. The mechanic came out to see me and he told me how to do it. I did so right at the curb in front of his shop and it started right up. Then he asked me if I wanted a job. I worked for him several years after school and summers.
Norm
Norm
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Re: Change Timing Gear
Can't see much from the oil fill access, John K. - just a bit of the front which doesn't show any gear wear - I believe you need to see the rear thus removing the generator gives a wide view.
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Re: Change Timing Gear
I have an aluminum timing gear in my 21 Touring. When I had the short block rebuilt I was told it could be a little noisy at first and I really didn’t notice it being overly loud. I put the rest of the engine together myself and did install a new generator gear. If it’s louder than it’s supposed to be I also have a brass gear in another T and it’s not louder than that car. This is my assessment of my cars.
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Re: Change Timing Gear
You’ll need to make sure the timing gear cover is properly a-lined with the cam when you reinstall or your timer won’t run true
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Re: Change Timing Gear
I’ve been running nylon cam gears for about 15 years now. Very quiet. No issues even when running an alternator. Some others have had issues.
Tom
Tom
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Re: Change Timing Gear
You could say I've had a nylon gear issue. I was stuck in Trinidad CO for a week after a nylon timing gear in a Chev 350 went south and did a lot of engine damage. Nylon and fiber timing gears are on my no-no list. I believe the best you can do for a Model T engine is a McEachern bronze gear.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
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Re: Change Timing Gear
Aluminum cam gears are not all the same. Different alloys. Some are/were relatively soft & anodized a color. There was some in 6061 t6 (good)
Aluminum gears require more clearance depending on the alloy. A long ways back I tested one before an install. Heated in boiling water. The diameter grew .025" So clearance was set @ .012, as I recall. Gear was a bit noisy until the motor got up to temperature. I have been using Dan M. bronze gears since.
Aluminum gears require more clearance depending on the alloy. A long ways back I tested one before an install. Heated in boiling water. The diameter grew .025" So clearance was set @ .012, as I recall. Gear was a bit noisy until the motor got up to temperature. I have been using Dan M. bronze gears since.
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Re: Change Timing Gear
I replaced a fiber gear with aluminum two years ago. I could hear the gear, strangely, during deceleration for the first few drives. It has not made the same noise since then. I hear no detectable gear noise. I assume that was a break-in period and I may have had my clearance a little tight.
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Topic author - Posts: 96
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Re: Change Timing Gear
It was the 2nd engine you did for me but it has been 10 years since you replaced it. The longer I run it the more I hate it!
John Aldrich
Typical Model T Addict
Typical Model T Addict
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Topic author - Posts: 96
- Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:46 am
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Aldrich
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915, 1923. 1927
- Location: Kapowsin WA