T Snowmobile reduction axles

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Steve King
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: King
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Touring, 25 Coupe, , 26 Touring, 22 Aluminum Fordor, 23 Coupe
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Board Member Since: 2010

T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Steve King » Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:07 pm

20220930_105738.jpg
Has anyone ever seen these T snowmobile reduction axles? I would like to couple these units I have with my complete 26 Ruxstell to put my sled together. Trouble is I'm missing the pinions that attach to the axle taper and mesh with the hub gear. I have a similar setup on my my 31 Super Snowbird except the hub gear is internal rather than this T external.


Topic author
Steve King
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: King
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Touring, 25 Coupe, , 26 Touring, 22 Aluminum Fordor, 23 Coupe
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Steve King » Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:09 pm

Closer shot of the hub and drum
Attachments
20220930_110852.jpg


Topic author
Steve King
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: King
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Touring, 25 Coupe, , 26 Touring, 22 Aluminum Fordor, 23 Coupe
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Steve King » Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:13 pm

20220930_111014.jpg
Axle bearing in unit looks bigger than standard? Not looking at the stub axle bearing but the bearing the actual axle is supported by.


Dan Hatch
Posts: 4111
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Hatch
Location: Alabama
MTFCA Number: 49974

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Dan Hatch » Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:39 pm

Very interesting. Does that bolt on to the axle housings? Or are the housings made that way?
More pictures please.
Who made that?


Topic author
Steve King
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: King
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Touring, 25 Coupe, , 26 Touring, 22 Aluminum Fordor, 23 Coupe
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Steve King » Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 pm

It clamps to the axle. I don't know who made them, but they are similar to my Arps Model A Super Snowbird kit, so I suspect Snowflyer or Arps


TractorGlenn
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am
First Name: Glenn
Last Name: Heim
Location: Illinois

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by TractorGlenn » Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:39 am

The unit you have is from a "Superpower Snowflyer". In about 1926 or 1927 Snowflyer came out with this unit which replaced the need for a Ruckstall. The model they produced prior to this was continued as a lower cost model and was called the "Snowflyer Regular". The Superpowers also had longer skis with higher risers and a special raised crossbar. Since the Superpowers sat higher giving them more clearance almost all of the idler axle parts are different. in 1928 Superpower geared hubs became available for the Model A and were sold until about 1930. They continued on for at least another year with a successor company but that is another story.


Topic author
Steve King
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: King
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Touring, 25 Coupe, , 26 Touring, 22 Aluminum Fordor, 23 Coupe
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Steve King » Sat Oct 01, 2022 12:49 pm

20221001_114534.jpg
Thank you Glenn for the history on the unit. Note how it's clamped to the axle.


TractorGlenn
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am
First Name: Glenn
Last Name: Heim
Location: Illinois

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by TractorGlenn » Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:34 pm

On a Model T the rivets for the backing plate ends were driven out and the whole cast ends were removed leaving just the tubes to clamp to. On a Model A since the ends with the shock mounts and the housing itself are all one piece, the ends were cut away and the axle housings which are tapered were machined to the same diameter as the Model t axle tubes. There is no differences between the Snowflyer parts for a T or A. Glenn

User avatar

rainer
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:27 am
First Name: Rainer
Last Name: Hantsch
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Lizzy: Model T Touring 1916, brass & black
Location: Vienna, Austria
Board Member Since: 2021
Contact:

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by rainer » Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:12 am

Just a question of interest...
This reduction axles actually reverse the rotation of drums. So the car would have one two reverse speeds and one frward speed.

How is this corrected?
Is the entire rear axle reversed, so the differential's big gear is on right side? That will reverse the rotation of half axles.
Model T Touring 1916


Topic author
Steve King
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: King
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Touring, 25 Coupe, , 26 Touring, 22 Aluminum Fordor, 23 Coupe
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Steve King » Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:55 pm

20221001_115010.jpg
Model A Super Snowbird is different. It has an internal gear in the drum. This unit has an external gear. Here is a picture showing the square set screw to lock the position. The direction question is a good one.


TractorGlenn
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am
First Name: Glenn
Last Name: Heim
Location: Illinois

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by TractorGlenn » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:00 pm

I Believe you could purchase the rear axle assembly from Snowflyer modified and complete with the carrier reversed and the oil fill hole in the correct position. If the buyer was doing the modification themselves they could simply flip the rearend upside down. The need to add oil is minimal as long as you have good seals. These units were only used for a few months a year. the castings with the hubs had provisions for re-mounting a leaf spring. If you have ever seen a Montgomery Ward Utility tractor conversion or a Sears Roebuck Thrifty Farmer tractor conversion (after 1934) both having external tooth bull gears, you will see that most rear axles are simply flipped over. Glenn


TractorGlenn
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am
First Name: Glenn
Last Name: Heim
Location: Illinois

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by TractorGlenn » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:02 pm

The modified rear axle housings are also listed in the parts manual list. Glenn


Topic author
Steve King
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: King
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Touring, 25 Coupe, , 26 Touring, 22 Aluminum Fordor, 23 Coupe
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Steve King » Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:03 pm

Glenn, if you flip the axle over, wouldn't you loose maybe 6" ground clearance. The offset of the gear reduction gives 2.5 to 3" extra ground clearance on my Super Snowbird. If you flipped it over that would double.


TractorGlenn
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am
First Name: Glenn
Last Name: Heim
Location: Illinois

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by TractorGlenn » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:07 pm

Steve. Flipping the axle over without the Snowflyer super hubs installed is the same as not flipping it because the Ford castings on the ends of the stock rear axle tubes have been removed. flipping the axle over is before the Superpower hubs are installed. The Snowflyer hubs are installed with the pinions (yours are missing) on top of the bull gear. The geared hubs do raise the rear of the Snowflyer but that is why the risers on the skis are higher that the regular risers. Not just to keep things level but to keep the float in the carb level. Glenn


TractorGlenn
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am
First Name: Glenn
Last Name: Heim
Location: Illinois

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by TractorGlenn » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:11 pm

Steve. Are you planning on building a Snowflyer Superpower? Do you have the front ski assembly, the track and the idler axle assembly? Glenn


Nv Bob
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:04 pm
First Name: Bob
Last Name: Middleton
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 18 roadster 1810 brand X
Location: Western nv

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Nv Bob » Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:44 am

I biulding one based on TT


TractorGlenn
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am
First Name: Glenn
Last Name: Heim
Location: Illinois

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by TractorGlenn » Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:04 am

Bob. What brand are you using on your TT, Snowmobile, Snowflyer or Snowbird? Glenn


Topic author
Steve King
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: King
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Touring, 25 Coupe, , 26 Touring, 22 Aluminum Fordor, 23 Coupe
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Steve King » Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:07 pm

Glenn, I have the complete 8" wide tracks for the single idler and I have choice of all metal ski or wood metal combination. I have the buggy style springs and could chose to use a 26/27 large drum car Ruxstell or a TT Ruxstell I have. I could use a TT cab I have or a Kelsey touring body I have been saving.


Topic author
Steve King
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:39 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: King
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Touring, 25 Coupe, , 26 Touring, 22 Aluminum Fordor, 23 Coupe
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by Steve King » Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:10 pm

This is my 31 Super Snowbird I finished in 2 years.
Attachments
20210114_180042.jpg


TractorGlenn
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am
First Name: Glenn
Last Name: Heim
Location: Illinois

Re: T Snowmobile reduction axles

Post by TractorGlenn » Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:28 am

Steve. Sounds like you have a mixture of parts. Which brand are you trying to put together? Any of the four major brands would just use the truck rear end for a TT. A Ruckstell is not needed but of course would be desired. The geared Snowflyer hubs were only sold for T rear ends and later Model A's. The buggy springs and wood top skis sound like Snowmobile. Are the tracks also Snowmobile? What brand are the metal skis? If you have any parts you need identified post some photos. Glenn

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic