MTFCA Forum

I'm about to install the transmission back on to my temp engine and need some advice on how to proceed.

First...at some point in the past a couple of the magnet clamp screw heads broke off and the clamps came off. What's the best way to remove the remains of the broken clamp screws?

What else should I be looking for as I inspect everything.

A couple things to note:

- I spent a lot of time closely inspecting each magnet with a flashlight and magnifying glass and none of them appear to be broken.
- The rear main bearing was pretty badly worn (I've had it rebabbitte). I'm wondering if that had anything to do with the clamps screws being broken off.

Experience grief now, or grief later. Grief now, for the time it takes you to replace all brass screws while you have the chance and no damage is inflicted on your mag ring. Grief later when the next head comes off an old screw and things go ...BANGBANGBANGBANG. With 2 heads missing it is a near certanty that more will follow.

A prudent man will pull the magnets for inspection and recharge them, too. New aluminum standoffs are really cheap insurance, as well.

Also...try to find 2 original keepers. The repros are soft and flex, making adjustments difficult.

And when somebody says "ah, my grandpap built his from 5 different transmissions an' all old parts and never did worry none, and I do the same!", be sure to ask if they are willing to supply all the parts that go blooey if another screw lets go...

Thanks Scott.

I was able to find the 2 keepers in the bottom of the oil pan when I took the engine apart.

Any advice on how to remove the screws? They're REALLY tight. I can't get them to budge.

I had a screw break last fall. To remove it I drilled into the center of the screw with an 1/8” bit from the bottom to relieve the pressure from peining, then grabbed the shank with vice grips and unscrewed it.

Ahhhhh the grief later ploy?

For removing just the damaged screws, I'd file the end of the screw to remove the piened end...if original, they were smacked with a tool that must have looked like a tiny meat tenerizer...it makes a bunch of dimples on the end...then take a small, sharp cold chisle and between the magnets, split the aluminum standoff. You should be able to put a vicegrip on the screw and walk it right out.

If removing all of them, you still need to file the tip ends back to the ring gear. I have a hex bit with the EXACT slot width/thickness and use a Milwaulkee screw gun on them if I need some persuasion. The "ratchet" action usually breaks them loose or takes the heads off. Usually after filing, a regular screwdriver is all you need. Once or twice, I used my hammer-drill on really stubborn one and they came right out. It sounds awfull, but isn't the same as hitting the magnets to level them...the keeper is flexed and the impacts that the screw gets is not transmitted nearly as harshly to the magnets as when hitting them to level them (which I don't do... I shim them UP rather than hammer them DOWN)

best of luck

I had to actually drill the peined end of the screws when disassembling my magnets. They're brass and it's easy to drill just enough of the end so that the screws will unscrew normally..............but be patient! Since they ARE brass, overzealous use of a screwdriver might break one off. In that case a small drill and Ezy out is called for.

On the broken ones, it may help to turn them in some to help cut off the peined end. I have some keepers if you want them.

Is it just me? Or do the keepers on the side of the flywheel where the missing screw heads are/were look like they have been making contact with the mag ring? If so, the problem is much more serious than you realize.

The penned ends of the screws can be neatly leveled out with a small sharp cold chisel or you can use a dremal to smooth them out. Once you do that they screw out easily most every time. Now is the time to replace all the screws and be done with it. MUCH easier to do than having to do it after you get the engine running and hearing a click or two later on!
And it may be a really bad click

If you don't have them, obtain copies of the books Engine, and Transmission, and Electrical system from the club or one of the vendors. Those books have detailed instructions how to proceed with the work. If you have the original magneto coils I would strongly recommend replacing the ring. The old insulation is almost always ready to disintegrate. The newer rewound ones are insulated with fiberglass tape and dipped in resin and much longer lasting.
Also closely inspect the starter ring. If the teeth are worn it should be replaced. The screws are threaded into the ring and if you replace it, you can also replace all the screws with new ones and you won't need to be concerned about whether you break them getting them out.
Also when you have things apart, check all magnets for cracks and recharge them. Then follow instructions on how to set the magneto ring and magnets for proper clearance all around and you should not have any more problems with the magneto.
While things are apart it would also be a good idea to go through the engine and transmission and adjust or replace everything which is worn.
I know this all sounds like a lot of work, however, once apart and fixed will save you from pulling things apart several times to fix those potential problems and you will have one of the better running cars on tours.
Norm

Bill Robinson wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:45 am

Is it just me? Or do the keepers on the side of the flywheel where the missing screw heads are/were look like they have been making contact with the mag ring? If so, the problem is much more serious than you realize.

The rear main bearing was pretty worn and I'm sure that was altering the gap between the field coils and keepers pretty significantly.

I've had the rear main rebabbitted and I'm hoping that will eliminate the problem. I'll find out soon.

I should point out, for those who aren't following my build thread, that this is engine is meant to be a temporary thing that I want to last at most, a few years until I get my other engine rebuilt professionally.

That being the case, I'm trying to walk a fine line between doing things right and not letting costs get out of control.

This temporary engine came in a parts chassis that I bought from some guys who were using the body for a hotrod. With the exception of the rear main bearing, the other bearings looked pretty good. I lapped them with Timesaver, adjusted the shims on the rod bearings, honed the cylinders, lapped the valves, rebuilt the carburetor, installed new gaskets, etc.

The goal is to get something in the car that I can putt around with in the neighborhood and at swap meets without spending a ton of money on this temp engine. If it's something that can be done very cheaply (or free) like honing or lapping or buying new keeper screws for the magnets, then I'm all for it. If it's not cheap, then I'm only for it if it's a neccesity. Think, "Great Depression farmer" and you'll get where I'm coming from with this engine.

The most money I've put into this engine so far is the re-babbitted rear main from Gene French and a new head gasket.

With the magneto, my goal is to do two things...1) make it function and 2) make it where it won't shed any more keepers and screw heads.

The advice on getting the books is very good if you don't have them. (?) There is more to this job then replacing a couple of missing/broken screws. Chances are the rest are in need of replacing, not just the broken ones. Then there is the setup, this is not just a bolt back on job, it needs to be gaped for proper usage. At this point the brass has been stressed for about 100 years and if something comes loose, your trip around the hood could land someone in the hospital. The screws are cheap compared. 60 or 70 years ago the cars were a lot newer.
My engine lasted many years and a good amount of driving with just replaced/fitted caps.
You may know all this so in that case this would be for others that don't reading this.

Mark Gregush wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:23 pm

The advice on getting the books is very good if you don't have them. (?) There is more to this job then replacing a couple of missing/broken screws. Chances are the rest are in need of replacing, not just the broken ones. Then there is the setup, this is not just a bolt back on job, it needs to be gaped for proper usage. At this point the brass has been stressed for about 100 years and if something comes loose, your trip around the hood could land someone in the hospital. The screws are cheap compared. 60 or 70 years ago the cars were a lot newer.
My engine lasted many years and a good amount of driving with just replaced/fitted caps.
You may know all this so in that case this would be for others that don't reading this.

I'm about to place the order today from Langs for a whole new set of screws and the little spool looking spacer thingamabobs. I have a complete set of the keepers and I'll reuse those.

Don If you don't have a copy of the MTFCA engine book, I have one spare left i'll send you for free...

Barth_Tool_Co wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:11 pm

Don If you don't have a copy of the MTFCA engine book, I have one spare left i'll send you for free...

Awesome....thanks.

Just sent you a PM

I agree with Scott about shimming up the low magnets rather than pounding down the high ones.

I don't remember what the shim stock cost, but it can't be terribly expensive.

RustyFords wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:13 pm

I should point out, for those who aren't following my build thread, that this is engine is meant to be a temporary thing that I want to last at most, a few years until I get my other engine rebuilt professionally.

Two points:

1) Things that aren’t repaired properly can fail immediately or some time after. It’s generally the luck of the draw when it will happen. If you are willing to accept a catastrophic engine failure at any time, you have more opportunities to “overlook” more expensive/proper repairs.

2) I’ve seen a lot of temporary / spare engines that end up being in cars 10-20 years or even indefinitely. Also seen cars built around a “spare engine”.

Adam wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:57 am

I’ve seen a lot of temporary / spare engines that end up being in cars 10-20 years or even indefinitely. Also seen cars built around a “spare engine”.

Ideally, I'd like to have my other engine rebuilt and installed in no more than a few years. At that point, my goal is to find a young guy to give the temporary engine to.

Sometimes we forget to pass on things that are just part of what we know, this will be an example. Untill you have the screws out you don't know which ones they are. The screws will be ether #14 (original) or 1/4-28 which is what most of the newer ring gears are. BUT! you can retap the #14 to 1/4-28 but not the other way around.

Mark

You're right, though given the ring gear wear and the crystilization on the bolts, I'm betting they are original. It is good of you to mention this to Don so that he is aware that there are two different screws available and that they are not directly interchangeably.

Also, since this is a bargain build, Don, consider rotating your ring gear 90 degrees to place fresh teeth in the path of the starter.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:51 pm

I don't remember what the shim stock cost, but it can't be terribly expensive.[/size]

Where did you get your shim stock from Steve?

Thanks for all the excellent advice yall...I appreciate it.