MTFCA Forum

I am in the process of rebuilding a 1914 Model T Ford rear end. I have found that one side leaks at the rivets.
What is the best or easiest way to repair/fix this problem? Would J P weld around the rivets on the inside work?
Thank you, Craig,

Pull it apart, clean, tin and reassemble with new rivets and sweat inside and outside with 50/50 tin/lead solder.

I'd pull it apart too, and have the pieces hot tanked to remove all grease and crud. I put mine back together with nuts and bolts. The bolt heads are turned to look like rivet heads. The inside end is slotted to take a screwdriver to hold the bolt as it is tightened. Two Loktite products are needed. Red 515 non hardening flange sealant around the inner end of the centre castings and around the flanges through which the bolts are fitted. Nut loc is used on the nuts, and if you are worried, the ends of the slotted bolts can be bent out to act as a locker. Because the sealant does not set, movement/shocks to the axle assembly will not open it up to possible leaks. It also stays flexible around the bolts.
Others will have different ideas.

Allan from down under.

I restored my ‘14 rear axle housings just like Allan. I might add that I used #8 bolts and nuts.

Some time ago, I re-riveted a set of housings for a fellow forum member. Everything was cleaned very well. Loads of sealant were slathered on the trumpets and differential housings. They were then temporarily assembled with nuts & bolts. One-by-one, each bolt was removed and replaced with a new rivet. When complete, the rivets were covered over with sealant, inside the diff case only. The rivets were hammered cold, then a head was formed with a rivet set. (I can't recall now if the assembly was pulled together with "all-thread" prior to the bolts being added or not.)

Thank you everyone for your replies. Jerry, what sealant did you use?
Craig

Brazing might be the best solution, but I used JB Weld and made screws with rivet heads to joint it. I painted it liberally to add to the sealing. One has sealed well for 20 years and the other for 8.

Craig E. Luton wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:21 pm

Thank you everyone for your replies. Jerry, what sealant did you use?
Craig

Craig,

I honestly don't recall now. The guy I did it for supplied it himself. I do recall it had some flex to it. I can't imagine it was anything too unusual.

Craig, the sealant I used was Loktite 510, not 515 as I remembered. It is non hardening, so will not crack under movement. More is not better. Just apply it to mating surfaces and let it do its work. There is no need for excess of the stuff to hang about. It will do its best work on absolutely dry, non oily surfaces. Otherwise, my method is just like Rich's

Allan from down under.

Rich, you brought back painful memories when you mentioned brazing as the best method. I disagree 240% with that, 10% for each rivet i had to dig out of a 1912 clamshell diff to get it apart. Then there is another 300% for each side for cleaning up the continuous bronze bead around the outside. Give me a non bronzed one any time.

Allan from down under.

Allan

I'm not a fan, either. In my case, Sheetmetal. I discovered that on sheet metal, welding on brazing creates spectacular fireworks and large holes. What doesn't burn up becomes a rotten amalgam with the durability of a PRINGLES potato chip. What a disappointment to find braze in several places on my runabout which ultimately resulted in having to cut the entire repaired area out. The "repairs" were large horrible affairs that turned small tears into large contaminated messes. Welding would have quickly and safely fixed the damage originally, but braze and the damage it caused created a ton more work for me.

Maybe there is a time/place for it, but as yet I have not found it, and as such have not developed any skills in its application.

Perhaps it's good for small parts fabrication, but I rely on hard silver solder for that and have great results with it.

No one has mentioned the real possibility that the housing is cracked. I’ve seen several cracked 12 rivet castings. The correct repair is difficult as you’d really like it to be straight when you are done.

Andy

Andy, that was the reason I developed the nut and bolt method of assembling the diff halves. My 1912 clamshell diff centre castings were cracked between the rivet holes. They had been very neatly repaired by fitting hand formed C shaped gussets which were riveted in place. Curiosity got the better of me when I saw those, and I drilled out the rivets so I could remove the gussets. I had the castings professionally welded to repair he cracks, and that opened a whole new can of worms in the form of distortions which required some imaginitive re-machining of parts and the making of custom bronze thrust washers. That diff has been torn down twice since, but nothing to do with the repairs. I broke a tooth off one pinion gear, and split another in a panic stop in traffic.

Allan from down under.

I've seen some beautiful repairs on old cast iron machine tools. Broken castings rebuilt with brass. The brass and iron looked like marble cake. No distortion, bubbles, cracks, etc.

Thank you again everyone for the good information.

Craig

Following this thread was interesting about repairing the 1914 rear end leaks so I thought I would contribute with this one that ended its days as a jack stand! It’s been used around the shop for years. I guess after the original owner had stopped the leaks with brass he found one last use for it! It was a fairly good brazing job I guess.

Rich Eagle wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:08 pm

Brazing might be the best solution, but I used JB Weld and made screws with rivet heads to joint it. I painted it liberally to add to the sealing. One has sealed well for 20 years and the other for 8.
14Rr3.jpg
14Rr1.jpg
14Rr2.jpg

Hi Rich, I like your solution. what did you do with the nuts of the rivet to be sure they will not move or fall down inside the rear ? Thank you Sir

I seriously staked and peened the nuts. It is a good question.
Rich