MTFCA Forum

I pulled the rear wheels off in my effort to rebuild them and found grease leaking into both brakes. Loose fits, missing felts etc. I pulled things apart and cleaned up in preparation for installing new outer seals (the one behind the bearing and on the end of the axle). But, I am having trouble getting the bearing sleeves out. I took the grease fitting out and I have one of the tools for the job, but the pin keeps slipping out of the hole. Is there a technique to this that I am missing?

Well, they can be hellaciously stubborn

a reasonable amount of heat from a propane torch can make petrified grease flow to release it's grip slightly. NOT an acetylene torch! You don't want a grease fire on your hands, just heat enough to warm things up

finally, there is a "direction" these things will collapse in size and come out, and there is the other direction where it will want to expand. Note where the grease hole is and rotate toward the split in the race.

if necessary, dress up the pip on the tool to dead square so that it gets a good grip in the hole.

Be sure to twist the tool in the direction to close the gap in the sleeve while you apply an even pull. Don't just pull on one side of the tool, find a rod that goes through both holes in the tool so that you can pull straight back while you twist.

If you can't see the gap in the sleeve, use a wire brush and some solvent to clean out the groove so that you can see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDcmsir6bPU

Twist! The magic word. They came right out. I will clean things up and re pack them. The inner seals look ok.

The axel sleeve tool pin is attached to a flat spring and that spring is held to the tool with a carriage bolt and nut. You should be able to tighten the nut to get some more spring force on the pin. When removing to old sleeve make sure to turn it in the direction to collapse the sleeve, the V notch in the sleeve points that direction. There should be holes in the outside end of sleeve removing tool, turn the tool with something to collapse the axel sleeve in order to free the axel sleeve dimple from the outer axel housing, then work the sleeve up and out of the axel housing.

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:09 pm

Well, they can be hellaciously stubborn

a reasonable amount of heat from a propane torch can make petrified grease flow to release it's grip slightly. NOT an acetylene torch! You don't want a grease fire on your hands, just heat enough to warm things up

finally, there is a "direction" these things will collapse in size and come out, and there is the other direction where it will want to expand. Note where the grease hole is and rotate toward the split in the race.

if necessary, dress up the pip on the tool to dead square so that it gets a good grip in the hole.

The muffler pipe tool is not great, only adequate to marginal. Make sure the pip has a good deal of spring tension. Increase if possible.
The sleeve hole needs to be clear. I find a 90 degree scribe or pick will clean the hole of the old grease.

Several years ago I made some reproduction Cantrell-Miller sleeve pullers. Now THOSE things pull out sleeves...

The Stevens tool for that is a massive affair and I have no desire (for now) to reproduce them

Three Cantrell-Miller-Conger sleeve pullers and dummy axle next to an original:

I also made 3 of these pullers also. Too bad they are not vendor offered. I didnt see a profit in it myself.
They work extremely well. My dummy axle was made from a transmission center shaft. The handles I made 2" longer for better leverage.

Those pullers look great.

Not only look great they work. Thanks for making them. I may use mine today.

Does anyone have a video or pictures of these tools in action?
Bryant

Since I knew I wasn't going to reuse them I just bent them out of shape and grabbed them with pliers.

I guess you could say I have a thing for sleeve pullers.

Which of the right 4 do you prefer?

Could someone please provide the dimensions of the dummy axle?
I have a Stevens puller but have never made the dummy axle for it.
Thank you,
Harry

Ditto here - need the dimensions for my Cantrell-Miller ! I have an odd-ball sleeve remover that I've not seen another - I'll post a photo tomorrow.

Do all of the period aftermarket pullers rely on the hole in the sleeve, or do some of them work differently?

My 1912 Flanders has the same size sleeves as a Model T, but they don't have the hole. Luckily, my sleeves are in good condition, so hopefully I won't have to replace them any time soon.

Mark

the modern version, Cantrell-Miller, and Stevens pullers all latch onto the hole. My reproduction of the Cantrell-Miller does also. I could not imagine how else to grab it.

Harry Lillo wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:03 pm

Could someone please provide the dimensions of the dummy axle?
I have a Stevens puller but have never made the dummy axle for it.
Thank you,
Harry

Not having one either or ever seeing a real one.
I turned down the flange of a transmission center shaft just smaller than an installed sleeve.
The length works perfectly.

I suppose, if you wanted to be more exact than a good guess, you can measure the distance from the inner axle seal flange to the axle end.
Thats where the dummy axle is used.

Thanks, Scott, that is what I expected. Perhaps Flanders intended for the sleeves to be driven out from the back side, or maybe they never considered how to service them.

CudaMan wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:03 pm

Thanks, Scott, that is what I expected. Perhaps Flanders intended for the sleeves to be driven out from the back side, or maybe they never considered how to service them.

When you get to the point of needing to pull a sleeve, clean everything up real good. If Flanders expected them to be changed, there should be an obvious clue, like some slots in the base or a lip to grab with a thin armed puller.

RajoRacer wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 11, 2022 7:13 pm

Ditto here - need the dimensions for my Cantrell-Miller !

I do not have it in front of me to measure the overall length, but it should be the same length as the puller itself (for some reason 8" is sticking in my head, but please do not hold me to that). The one in the photo below I made with an old axle with 2 washers welded to the bottom, with a 2" O.D. for the base.

Ok so it did take a bit of thinking to figure out what the dummy axle was for, sold mine before I ever used it. In case some are wondering: The threaded part needs something to push against so if the axle is out, the dummy one is installed in the housing and is seated on the rivet ring, same place the inner seal sits, so the sleeve can be pulled out.

Here's another "no-name" puller - works good. Has a spring loaded button to engage the corresponding hole in sleeve but this one holds fast on the backing plate & wind it out.

thanks Steve!

I like it!

not too handy if the axle is still there, though... I'm going to bet that when these cars were new-er, the axle generally came out for rebuild by the time the sleeve went bad.

Still looking for the dimensions of the Stevens
dummy axle............
Harry

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:49 pm

thanks Steve!

I like it!

not too handy if the axle is still there, though... I'm going to bet that when these cars were new-er, the axle generally came out for rebuild by the time the sleeve went bad.

I have one I replaced with the cantril- miller. Its marked S S E C O Made in usa. I found right quick this tool design is lacking. First for only being useful on bare housings. And secondly, the pip locks into the sleeve hole. If the sleeve wont pull out, your are stuck with the tool locked in. As bad as the muffler pipe tool is, at least you can work a tool behind the pip tension spring & free it.

Harry Lillo wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:02 pm

Still looking for the dimensions of the Stevens
dummy axle............
Harry

Harry, if you are looking for the dimension off an original dummy axle, I cant help you.
I have see 4 or 5 of these tools in my lifetime & none had a dummy axle.

The transmission shaft I modified measures 7.5" & works quite well.

Measuring an axle & figuring from where the seal has worn, The dummy axle would need to be 8.5" to match an assembled rear axle protrusion.

I hope this helps you.

Kind of late to the party, but here is the sleeve puller I made a few years ago. Seems to work fine and it's always fun to build something from "on-hands" instead of store-bought.

In the lower photo, the plunger pin and right hand nut are actually one piece and made from a 5/16" extension nut.

Clever idea making the pin out of the right hand nut.