MTFCA Forum

Hello all,

Still learning my way around here.....so excuse what may be a easy answer.....
I just purchased a 1921 model T Center Door.... decent shape original interior that needs to be replaced....as well as the tires. My understanding was they had split rims ...my mistake.

So how many different type of rims did the T have - How do I change tires and how do I mount the spare.......???

THANKS !!!!

30x3.5 clincher non demountable rims, 30x3 clincher non demountable rims, 30x3.5 demountable rims, and 21" split rims. Not including tt rear rims.
21 centerdoor should have 30x3.5 demountable clincher rims. Lots of posts about how to change tires. Clincher tires come off and on by hand with tire irons and lots of brute strength. Clincher tires will stretch unlike modern tires. Old hard tires will need to be cut off.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/115355.html

welcome, John!

While they are far in between, there are some straight side 30 X 3-1/3 rims for Ford out there. I don't recall if the one a friend has is split or not.
If you are replacing your tires, rethink the cutting them off. Some of the old tubes, if they hold air, are better then anything sold today.

Also the '26/'27 wire wheels which are a drop-center, the only factory issued model T wheels that an average modern tire shop can figure out how to work on.
In addition, there were dozens of after-market wheels made for the model T in its era. Many of those however were also clincher types similar to all the model T factory wheels before 1925. Though some used other design types, including the OTHER type of split rims, the ones known to be very dangerous to anyone that doesn't know what they are doing when working on them. Those are however quite safe for anyone that does know how to work with them (I personally like the "other" type split rims, but I was taught how to work with them before I was twelve.

As for the most common clincher type wheels rims and tires? They are difficult the first few times. Once one gets the "feel" of them, they get easier. The "brute strength" Jeff mentions may be necessary. However, "finesse" usually works better. Just like most bicycle tires of the past 90 years. The most difficult part of clinchers is learning to not pinch (puncture) the tube while assembling.

Following what Mark G said. Some of us also prefer the old tires, up to a point of condition. I have a few tires with tubes in them that are over 40 years old, like gold!

You're going to find that there are plenty of different types and styles for your car out there. The ones they've mentioned (Demountables and non-Demountables) are the most common, but there are also Kelsey, Hayes, Firestone, Loose Lug, and Split Rims which you sometimes find on 26 Fordoor Sedans and the TT (of course you'd find them on truck) and there are a couple of styles of them too...one even called the "Widowmaker" for reasons I'm somebody has already mentioned. those you usually take to a tire shop and let them play with them.

Post some photos of the rims you have, with attention to the mounting bolts and the felloe where they are bolted on. That way we can tell exactly what you have. Be aware tbat over the years, a wheel of two may have been changed, so they may not all be the same.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

Thanks for all the help ! Hoppe the attached helps.

Oh wow!! 1909-1916 round fellow nondemountables with well worn Wards Riverside tires. As mentioned above, you should have demountable rims/tires fastened to steel fellow wheels with 4 bolts and lug nuts.

While they might be wood fellow wheels, they look like metal fellow that came later. The coloration of both the rim and fellow look the same. Plus to me the spooks just look to big to be early. DONES475, are the fellow wood or metal, the part of the rim the spooks press into?

The felloes look steel to me, looks like a little rust spot at about 5:30...
Correct for a 21 without the starter option, I believe, 30X3-1/2" non demountable clinchers.
Pretty much the same as a bicycle tire.
On car with tire spoons....carefully !!
I put Murphy's on the bead and inflate the tube enough to remove the wrinkles, after stuffing into the tire.
Or use flaps...

John, the picture you posted is a non demountable clincher rim. You change the tire with the wheel on the car. Jack it up, put a jack stand under the axle, and get to work with a couple of tire irons. Cars with non demountable wheels do not have a spare tire. Early cars came with a tire pump, tire iron, and tube patches.

Thanks again all.

Have spare carrier, so will remove it for now until I find some de -mountable rims and tires all around.[
Heres a shot of the car.

attachment=0]20190428_161018(3).jpg[/attachment]

By 1921 for was using 30x3.5 demountables all around
My friends 17 centerdoor has demountables all around

Mark,
The 30x3 1/2 straight side rims are not Ford factory supplied for Model Ts. Chevrolet used that size on Model 490 closed cars because the tires had a higher weight rating than the clinchers that were on their open cars. The tube stem is in a different location than Ford rims but one drilled hole changes that. The straight side tires also give more rubber contact with the road and therefore better braking. Downside is the tires are more expensive.
Hope this helps.

So who says the T is a 1921? It also has oil sidelamps. Parts may have been changed in any of many possible combinations. The wheels it has and the sidelamps could be correct for a '17/'18 or very early 1919 model Ford center-door sedan. By February 1919 (supposedly?) ALL Ford center-door sedans and the new coupes had the starter/generator (electrical) as standard equipment, along with the new demountable clincher wheels, rims, and tires. The electrical package and the demoutable wheels/tires were optional on open body cars into 1927.
It may be necessary to examine numerous minor details to determine the proper year of the car. Regardless of what year it may or may not be? It sure looks like a nice model T! And I do like the center-door sedans!

Zooming in on the picture, the seats look pretty nice. Due to the reflections on the glass, I can't see much else inside. Original interiors are getting difficult to find. If that is the original interior? It maybe should be preserved?

John,

Welcome to the forum! And you have a beautiful Centerdoor.

From your posting it sounds like this is your first T? If so great welcome to the hobby! If this is another T for you – please let us know so we don’t bombard you with things that you already know from having driven and lived with other Ts for years.

For doing some background reading on your T – pages 287 to 304 in Bruce McCalley’s “Model T Ford” covers the 1915-1923 Centerdoor bodies and some of the changes to the Centerdoor bodies over the years. You can obtain a used copy of his book (Amazon, AbeBooks.com, e-bay etc.). Or my recommendation is to order a digital copy (available from: Available from: Barbara McCalley,308 Cottingham Court, Allison Park, PA. 15101 (412) 364-0561: gourmetbarbara2@gmail.com
$50.00 + $7.25 shipping. (05/22/2018). He also covers the 1909-1927 chassis parts including wheels and rims in other parts of the book. And the CD contains the Ford Price List of Parts for 1909-1927+ etc. As well as a digital copy of other Ford books.

I need to run to work – but the summary is – your car’s body has the latched tracks to hold the front side and door glasses in position rather than the strap that is used to hold your back sides glasses in position. And your car appears to have the metal covers over the exterior window frames. Those features were introduced around 1922ish. Why “around” … on page 292 he shares about a Centerdoor in the book:

“David Simmering’s 1922 Sedan, a classic example of why one can’t absolutely define a certain year Ford. This one has the earler body with the painted wood window sills and the strap-type windo lifts on all side windows. This car has engine number 5,699,521 which ahs a casting date of Jand 21, 1922, and which was assembled Feb 8, 1922. This would be considered “mid-year” since Ford generally introduced “new” models about Aug each year. In any event, this car is typical of the 1919-1922 Sedans before the “1922 updating.”

And there was considerable overlap when both the older and new style bodies were used. Below are some cropped photos from your posting showing your car has that later style body with the latch style widow tracks and the metal over the outside window surrounds. Again welcome to the forum!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Thank Hap very helpful !!!

Wow Hap! I should have looked more closely to the photos. Nice catch.
So the body (hence likely the car) is a late one and not an early one. Therefore the oil side (cowl) lamps and the nondemountable wheels are not correct for the car as those features ended for the center-door sedan in 1919. However, if you like it that way? You are not alone. Keep it that way if you want, and enjoy it regardless. You should likely change the wheels to the proper demountable types as they are generally easier to work with.
Beautiful car however you go with it!

From here, they look like steel felloe nondemountable wheels. To me, the curvature of the felloe is different than a wood fellow wheel. JMHO Dave

Hi John, thanks for sharing your new baby with us, and welcome to the T hobby,
Cheers
Adrian

I have never seen a steel felloe non demountable wheel other than in photos on the forum. I thought the transition between the usual felloe and the rounded section as seen on wood felloe wheels was radiused. On these wheels, that transmission is abrupt, like it is between the wood and the felloe on earlier wheels. Am I missing something?

Allan from down under.

Again welcome. Model Ts have had many changes over the years. Saying your car should have demountable wheels is a bit harsh. What I would suggest is you have great looking wheels. If they are straight and tight run them. Keep them aired up and probably use flaps and balancing beads. Put any new tires out is the sun on a hot day to make them a bit easier to mount. Ditto for getting the old ones off. That probably needs 2 people. I try on the car and on the ground if needed. Do not cut as already said old tubes are probably better than new ones.

Again welcome. Model Ts have had many changes over the years. Saying your car should have demountable wheels is a bit harsh. What I would suggest is you have great looking wheels. If they are straight and tight run them. Keep them aired up and probably use flaps and balancing beads. Put any new tires out is the sun on a hot day to make them a bit easier to mount. Ditto for getting the old ones off. That probably needs 2 people. I try on the car and on the ground if needed. Do not cut as already said old tubes are probably better than new ones.

Nice Centerdoor! Looks like a '22 to me as it has the ratchet window risers and no visor. My unmolested '22 has Kelsey rims. Someone added side lamps at some point and an after market cowel vent as well. Lots of cars were modified like that. I like the look!