MTFCA Forum

I took apart the whole front end only to put it back together because the car got the death wobble.

Does the front axle where the spindle goes in get a bushing?

Does the spindle where the wishbone goes in get a bushing?

Both are either so worn I can't tell if there is a bushing or there is no bushing needed.

Thank you!

I'm confused. Are you asking if the king bolt which the wheel spindles pivot on is "bushed" in the axle ? The answer is no. The king bolt is threaded into the bottom boss of the axle and locked with a castle nut. Not infrequently, both bores of the axle are badly "wallered out" from wear and lack of lubrication.

What is the year of your T ? Does the wishbone pass through an additional bore in the spring perch above the axle, or does it have "eyes" which are bolted to the bottoms of the spring perches below the axle ? In either case, no bushings were used originally, and a sloppy fit indicates extreme wear.

To bring your front end up to "good as new" will require either replacement of extremely worn parts, or building them back to spec by welding and re-machining.

Recommend the MTFCA front axle manual. Check the home page !

Hello
It would really help you if you had a manual of an front axle breakdown and pictures to go by. Get the MTFCA front axle manual for reference! Pictures say a thousand words! It will help you identifying parts and what they are called!

Here are some pictures of the Model T front axle. One is for a 26-27 and the other is a 14-18.
These can help some but do purchase the Ford service manual to get a good overall idea about a Model T and the MTFCA front end repair manual.

These will help you.

Lang’s, Snyder’s and other suppliers have catalogs. The catalogs are a great source of parts,pictures and what goes where. Hope this can help you.
Identifying what year your car is needed to purchase parts.

Robert; if I understand your question correctly: the spindles have a top and bottom bushing - not the axle. Good advice: get the MTFCA front axle manual

Sounds like a job for Stevens Front Axle Tool.

The spindle bolt is held captive and stationary in the end of the axle. Hence the axle has no bushes. However, some confusion may be created by the availability of "bushes" to repair wallowed out eyes in the ends of the axle. These perhaps could be called sleeves, which are fitted into oversized holes to bring the axle back into specification. These sleeves are stationary when fitted, becoming just part of the axle.
The bushes go into the spindles, which rotate on the spindle bolt.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

Bob

your early car has the wishbone that fits into the perches above the axle. Both ends should be a neat fit and when the nuts are slightly to fully tight there should be NO detectable movement. These things tend to either be frozen together and immovable when disassembly takes place or they have been run so long while loose, will fall out when the nuts are removed (and that's not good).

Properly bushed, there should be no detectable movement/rattle between the kingpin and the spindle bushings when things are apart. The kingpin should drop in with no binding and have essentially no radial play in the bushing. A .001-.002" clearance and a little oil applied and things will move freely with no easily detectable extra movement. I would not want to see any more than .002" when measured with instruments. It is essential that both bushings be line reamed. Doing one at a time can result in binding of the kingpin even with unusually high individual clearances in both bushings. Not good.

Kingpins should fit the axle like this: when dropped in (without spindles), .001-.002" "rattle" at the top, round hole, is "like new". When fully threaded into the lower hole (and there SHOULD BE THREADS there!), there should be no detectable up/down or side/side rattle in the threads prior to running things fully down.

Dan's admonition that you might need a Stevens Tool is predicated on my last paragraph showing rattle at the top "hole" in the axle or showing a rattle in the bottom threaded hole in the axle with the kingpin test fitted. In this case, then "yes" you would need bushings here and that is what the Stevens Tool does. The factory did not make these areas with bushings but that is the only way to make the repair(s).

I hope this fully covers what you were asking.

A major cause of front end shimmy that is frequently overlooked is seized front spring shackles. Be sure to check them when you put the front end back together.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess

All advice was very helpful, thank you!!

In fact I had the manual and forgot I have it!

The diagrams John are also very appreciated.

Oh, this is for a 1912, I forgot there were slight changes over the years. That can account for some of the confusion.

I have the wishbone over and under the axle.

Bob

Here is the link to the Forums Vowell Art collection https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/app.php/gallery/album/5
The one you want for your axle is https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/app.php/gallery/image/148

Once you have sorted the axle, then work through the whole steering system as well. 'Wobble' can come from worn drag link bushes, tie-rod bushes and even steering box bushes. Slop in each soon add up to a lot of slop when driving.

Some more modern cars have king pins which are anchored in the steering arms, and the wishbones do have bushes. Bushes are used for applications where parts rotate. Think transmission/fan/brake cams etc. on a T model. They are removable so they can be replaced when worn. Dan Hatch steers clear of describing his stationary axle fix components as bushes. They are described as inserts.

Allan from down under.