MTFCA Forum

Ok guys looking for some opinions, I am trying to decide if I want to install an auxiliary transmission in my latest project.
I am working on a 17 couplet, I want it to be the car I take on tours, and Ruckstells don't make much sense to me.
Rick

I have a Chicago in my TT and a Muncie 3 speed with reverse in my roadster pickup. I live where its pretty flat but they work well in hill country. I also run with a couple model A's. I can run at a nice speed for the A's on flat ground. I like that I can put then in neutral to start them cold with no creep. JMHO
Make sure your E brake is in good working order or have aux brakes. Missing a shift does happen and no brake peddle is no fun.

Yes. Do it Rick. Go all the way and get a KC Warford. Safer and more efficient.

I would want an intermediate gear and an overdrive gear. I would not want to add any unsprung weight to the chassis. That would point me toward a Warford.

I haven't driven T with an auxilliary transmission, but I'd think you could get the Warford, or other sliding gear auxilliary, back into a gear from neutral while rolling, as long as you had enough engine speed available to synchronize the auxilliary gears.

Another Warford advantage is minimal gearshift linkage.

Error of Opinion May be Tolerated Where Reason is Left Free to Combat It.....you would be correct Pat, if you’re referring to the KC Warford. It has gear synchronization due to its helical gears produced by a company building racing transmissions. Original Warfords utilize spur or straight cut gears and when your T is in motion and the transmission slips into neutral, use your emergency brake and swerve off the road to a stop to reengage your transmission.

Spur gears can be driver-synchronized by matching the speed.

I enjoy my Warford. First, as Dallas mentioned, you must have good hand brakes. In neutral there is no transmission brake and sometimes you can't get it into gear on the fly. I have Rocky Mountains.
It helps on long hills in second. It would help a heavier closed car as your Coupe.
With the Ford transmission, neutral is hard to find and shifting can be difficult if the RPMs aren't just right. I found that by the time I shifted I was not going the right speed for the selected gear anymore. I have gotten better at that with practice.
Also, as Dallas mentioned, starting in neutral in cold weather is a great convenience.
I get by fine without one in most of my Ts.
Yes, it would be worth the effort.
Rich

Whatever you get, I would recommend that you remove the original rear axle assembly from the U joint back and save it as is. You will then have a spare in case you have a problem which needs attention, you can drive the car. Also, once you alter the driveshaft, it cannot be made back the way Henry made it, and someone in the future might want to restore the car to original. Then get another rear axle for your modifications. You might even get lucky and find one already modified to work.
Get the most commonly used type auxiliary transmission and one which you can still get replacement parts so that it can be repaired or replaced if necessary without having to do so much modification in the future.
Your choice.
Norm

I don't think you'd need to use the T neutral, such as it is, to get back into gear if you were caught in Warford neutral while underway. Holding the T in neutral would probably prevent breaking teeth, but you'd still need to match the gear speeds as closely as possible using the throttle due to inherent drag in the T clutch, especially in cold weather with a cold motor.

OP says his car is a 1917, so it may not have a self-starter. In which case, if he stalls the engine mid-shift, it will not be possible to get an original Warford back into a gear to regain the use of transmission brakes.

Probably true. However, one might accomplish it by holding the T in "neutral" and jamming the Warford into the gear closest to your road speed.

well, if I put one in, I am going to get a brand new one from Layne Machine. I was already planning on some A-C style brakes.
I put an old Jumbo Giant in a TT I had, first time out I thought the fire truck was behind me blowing the siren.

What a relatively stock T needs for touring is an intermediate gear in most of the country. An auxiliary transmission is great as an overdrive or parade speed underdrive but does nothing for the big gap between T low and T high. Those who live in the flatland areas may find an overdrive handy, especially if they want to tour with other slightly newer vintage cars but 20 HP and hills don't do well in overdrive. Now if you significantly add some HP the picture changes - I love my Chicago aux trans in my Fronty speedster.

If you do get an aux trans go for the newly manufactured Lane version - ease of use with synchros and modern teeth and bearings to minimize noise. The suggestion of keeping your original driveline intact makes good sense.

I believe you can get an intermediate gear, or several of them, with most or all auxilliaries. I have a Mack with a 5 speed main transmission and a 3 speed auxilliary. Under, direct, and over ratios in the auxilliary give a wide range of combinations.

See: Texas T parts website, and search: "Layne Warford" for more information. Pictures seem to show spur gears in the Layne Warford.

I have this one a Muncie 3 speed with reverse. In my opinion this aux. transmission will give you the most options in gearing. High speed gearing and a low creeping gear for parades. Especially if you have a two-speed rear end, or a slower ratio rear end. AND AS ALWAYS, YOU NEED SOME BACK AXLE BRAKING SYSTEM IF YOU DO ANY OF THIS TYPE OF A MODIFICATION.

Why dont ruckstells make sense?
Better answers/opinions would be had with your expectations, terrain concerns & motor quality.

Are you aware of the common different gear ratios available? stock: 3.63, 3.25 & 4:1 ?
Depending on your needs/concerns you select the correct ratio & correct transmission.
Examples: A Rux with 3.25 will give you a bit more speed in direct & a bit lower gear in rux.
Your heavy body with a good stock motor should be happy with stock, 3.63 gears. In rux you have a good hill gear.
A warford with 4: 1 gears would give you a usable speed in over drive on flat ground, A good hill climbing gear in direct & a stump puller in underdrive. Generally stock gears in overdrive are not so useful in other than in a stripped down speedster. (Unless you have a killer motor)

I agree a Lane warford is the way to go with, if the decision to go warford. Top quality transmission & way less likely to get stuck between gears.(User friendly)

I had the occasion to drive a TT warford. The owner warned me to select a gear only when stopped. He knew his T. It wouldnt go into a different gear on the fly for either of us. I have also driven Lane warford T's. Easy shifting on the fly.

The Layne Warford is a standout. You can keep a standard T model differential under the car, and drive it just as you would a standard T. The layne transmission gives you the intermediate gear between Ford high and low, and a low low for parades, just like the Ruckstell, but it also gives you an overdrive for easier cruising, without resorting to changing diff ratios. It is a delight to change, both up and down, on the fly. The throw on the stick is minimal, so you are not obliged to lunge all over the cabin. And it is silent in use, not like most original Warfords i have heard.

Extra brakes! Perhaps, but if you drive the car like any other T, the transmission has no adverse effect. Changing down from overdrive to standard top gear is dead easy. You don't have the issues selecting gears that original Warfords pose. I love mine. With use you' will find you don't even have to use the Ford clutch when changing. Just match the revs and work the stick, both up and down shifts.

Allan from down under.

Keep in mind that squeezing by that Warford shifter in a couplet could be a chore. I have both and prefer the ruckstell.

Andy

I run a Jumbo Planetor. Low, low and intermediate gear but no overdrive. Intermediate gear makes all the difference on hills or running down a bumpy dirt road and the low, low is great for loading into the trailer or pulling stumps! I never drive fast enough to need an overdrive. Auxiliary brakes are a must and having a true neutral for crank starting is a big plus. I set mine up with the shift lever in the hand brake slot which makes getting in and out much easier.

Thanks everyone for all the good info. I have always been under the impression you get a couple more options with an auxiliary over a Ruckstell.
getting by the shifter shouldn't be a problem, both doors open. however, I may need to be more mindful of the next cheeseburger and not squeezing past the steering wheel.

I am putting in a lane Warford!!!!

Rick Nelson wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:04 pm

Thanks everyone for all the good info. I have always been under the impression you get a couple more options with an auxiliary over a Ruckstell.
getting by the shifter shouldn't be a problem, both doors open. however, I may need to be more mindful of the next cheeseburger and not squeezing past the steering wheel.

I am putting in a lane Warford!!!!

Keep the cheeseburgers coming.
A fatman steering wheel lets you have your cake & eat it too.

Hi Rick,
Sounds Like you have a plan going forward. I hate to do this but you may want to consider a 10 tooth pinion with the Lane Warford
as that will give you a 3:1 in overdrive which is a hard gear to pull in a heavy car. ( works great in my speedster ) but it only
weighs about 1200#. My Firetruck has a Muncie with a 11 tooth pinion gear, weighs 2000# and overdrive is useless unless you are on
level ground with a tail wind. On a 2% down hill grade you can do 65mph but still cant stop over 40mph.
Craig.