MTFCA Forum

Dogs are always ready to adopt a Model T !

Is this one an '09 ?

Upside down steering wheel. A pet peeve.

Cool photo! My bet is 1909. However, I'm seeing the winged Ford script....

It's not one of the first 500-800 (depending on the source) because it has one lever. According to the encyclopedia later 1909 looks the same as 1910, so the picture doesn't tell us which it is. Many 1909 Fords have no windshield because it was an optional feature that year and became standard in 1910, but that doesn't tell us which year this car is.

This photo is a great example of why I love large format cameras. They are the reason some old photos show such wonderful detail. The very best and most costly 35mm film cameras can't match it.

Upside down steering wheel.

Does that make it a skinny man wheel?

Wonder if there is a Pretolite tank in the toolbox?

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:11 pm

Upside down steering wheel.

Does that make it a skinny man wheel?

I'd say the driver is a skinny man, but turning the wheel over affords clearance for that heavy buffalo robe ! Come summer, it's room for a fat man I betcha !

Right you are, Steve. Probably a 5"x7" glass plate. Another factor in the high resolution of these old photos was "slow" films that yielded incredibly fine grain negatives.

At first glance I would call it a 1912. Since I am restoring a 1912, everything looks like a 1912!

Steve Jelf, you are correct about the large formats used in the film days. That is why I hang on to my 4X5 cameras even in this world of plastic computerized digicams.

I have a 1912 and I see everything that is not 12 such as no front doors high top when folded 09-10 head lamps. 11and 12 then the top is down is much flatter. Pictured is an early 12

It looks like my '09 to me. Could be a '10.
Cool photo.
Rich

Full length running board ribs, 2 hole front body mount, scalloped horn cover...looks like 09 to me.

Not so much about the car but I was wondering whereabouts the photo was taken? I guess it would have been winter, or close to it, judging by the attire, and most likely in the US because the car is LHD but it'd be nice to know more

Also, if anyone knows whereabouts it is, was it normal to tie the number plate to the front axle such as this one is? Where I come from they're usually done like that if it's a demonstration car and temporary 'registration' is needed to allow a vehicle on the road. Otherwise the plates need to be permanently fixed.

Here's a lightly coloured version just to add to the mix.

Too bad the license plate isn't more legible. Perhaps someone can recognize the image on the pennant. It almost looks like the letter "L" or "A" on it. The lap robe would be warm. I have my grandfather's bearskin coat he wore in his horse drawn buggy before cars. It can get too warm wearing it in below zero weather. Buffalo?
The top irons don't appear to be doglegged to me.
No pun...Well, OK if you like.

Is the radiator neck too tall for an '09?

Support bar in the radiator? looks like it.

No location was indicated. Pretty safe to say it's in the USA. As for license plates, early on, I'm not sure there were "rules". I've seen many period photos where the license plate display was pretty sketchy. Idaho didn't even issue plates before 1913.

My guess is '10. Gotta remember most if not all 09's were red, and it doesn't look red even in B/W. It looks like that "all but black dark Brewster green" per the encyclopedia to me. I like the dog too!

TWrenn wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:59 pm

My guess is '10. Gotta remember most if not all 09's were red, and it doesn't look red even in B/W. It looks like that "all but black dark Brewster green" per the encyclopedia to me. I like the dog too!

Tim,

I'm gonna' say that the dog is probably no earlier than a 1906.

Good one Jerry!!

Green is believable. Some were painted green in '09.
Many states required automobile registration before they began issuing license plates. It was the responsibility of the owners in some states to affix their number to the car. Leather pads, pieces of wood, pieces of metal with letters painted on them or any other material could be used to display the number. At least one fellow is offering to make presentable facsimiles of them:
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=bb19bd3e ... vbS8&ntb=1
I have no connection with this fellow.
Rich

TWrenn wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:59 pm

My guess is '10. Gotta remember most if not all 09's were red, and it doesn't look red even in B/W. It looks like that "all but black dark Brewster green" per the encyclopedia to me. I like the dog too!

There were more Green 1909 tourings than there were red.
The first green tourings started showing up in late April. Touring Car # 2,547, April 29th, was green.
The last red touring was built in late June of '09. Car # 5,300, June 21st, was red.
Between those dates there was overlap of the two colors.

Using the above references:
Not many States had a whit license plate in 1910 with virtival lettering on one end. Massachusetts did. The banner could be a variation of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute which happens to be in Troy NY only about 30 miles east of Massachusetts --
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If license is a 1911 then might be Ohio

Headlights, one piece spindles, butterfly arms on the open rear fenders, shape of the rear door and steep angle of the folded
Roof tells me it a 1909 / 10
Alan In Western Australia

I believe the four inch board that raises the windshield makes it a 1909 manufacture year and a 1910 model year.

Well I’ll throw my 2 cents in, Jno Brown model 60 sidelights, Jno Brown model 15 headlights, scalloped cover horn, angle of the reed cover and tube is in a downward trajectory, butterfly brackets under the rear fender under & up not through the skirt, dog leg top sockets but no winged Ford on the radiator, unless it’s a late 09 it’s probably a 10 but taken in a later year I suspect, because of the radiator & no wood or Bakelite handle on ratchet crank handle.

...it doesn't look red even in B/W.

Photographic emulsions of the time were orthochromatic, meaning they were blind to red light. That caused them to render red objects as black or almost black. If you examine a Brownie or other box camera you'll see that the little window that shows the number on the paper backing is red, or was originally, so it would not be a light leak to expose the film. Meanwhile, the green used by Ford was so dark that it looked black in the shade. It had to be in direct sunlight for the green to show. The bottom line on color, in this instance, is that we can't tell from the picture whether the car is red or green.

Also looks like the Rear Wheels has the early Non tapered Axle
Alan

A lot of details point to latter half of 1909 or 1910 model. I think the key detail to narrow it down is the two bolt front body bracket. The roadsters continued using up the two bolt front brackets apparently well into the early months of 1910 calendar year. Past discussions on the subject came to indicate that Ford may have used up the two bolt brackets on the lighter roadster bodies for a few months after switching the touring car to the three bolt bracket for the front of the body in late calendar 1909.
With all the other details, I feel the car is a late 1909 calendar year 1910 model year. Although most people today would probably call it a 1909 because it sounds better.

Red body fenders have bold Black welts on the fenders, with hood front and year half inch edges also contrasting black. Green body red pinstripes show up in some b/w photos, but not always so good...for example, where pinstrips can be seen on a front seat side panel, but then not so evident on the rear seat panel, in same shots.

Not sure when winged radiator script disappeared...could be this has had a later radiator replacement?

Meant to note that pinstrips appear to be evident here on the front seat and on the door. Not seen a red example that has body pinstripes...have seen black strips on red wheels, and chassis.

There seems to be quite a color difference between the hood and the body ! (?!?)

Does the rear door handle offer a clue to the year model ?

There seems to be quite a color difference between the hood and the body ! (?!?)

The hood and the aprons look the same. Maybe they're equally dusty, while the vertical body panels are less so.

Fenders too ! Good observations Steve !

The Driver seems to have a huge Bear Rug over his Legs but the top down. Is he hot or cold?
The later Radiator is a good question. Why would a late 09/ early 10 have the later script style??
Alan In Western Australia

The photo may have been taken later than the year of the car & hence the inconsistency in parts . I tried to determine when the cross buck railroad sign (appears in the background) became into use. It seems later than1910 and standards weren't adopted until 1935
https://www.roadtrafficsigns.com/railro ... gn-history
https://www.thehenryford.org/collection ... ts/101644/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigwag_(railroad)
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The spokes are wrong for 1909, there should be "tear drop" shaped at the top, these are thick and "oval" at the top like the 1911's.

Most obvious is the front body-to-frame carriage bolts: ( two for the early bodies and three for the "standard" 1910). I would have to say that other than the newer radiator (1911 or newer with the original 1909-1910 "FORD" cutout added to the core) and the steering wheel, the car looks like a reasonably early 1910. It is difficult to put a timeline on when all body makers all switched from the two bolt front body bracket to the three bolt , but from what I've noted, the change probably took place in June-July 1910.

Did 1910 have a buggy rail for the top?

I also think this is a 1909/10 taken in a later year. Radiator looks newer and some parts could have been replaced by the time of the picture.

I am thinking 09 for whatever it may be worth.

09 and 10 buggie rails are identical for the Touring, but not sure about roadster models. Others may be able to clarify exceptions like the Tourabout. Is that rail common?