MTFCA Forum

What really made the Model T so Popular?

So many pictures presented showing the Model T in production and on the road.

But what actually got the Model T out to the public and enable Henry to sell 15 million plus units?

The sales office....

In short, a much larger portion of the population could afford to spend a few hundred dollars for a car, than one for a few thousand dollars. It also had a reputation of being economical, durable, and easy to repair. Without one, you either had a horse, or you walked. What would you do?

Same as today. Cheap and easy to find parts.

High value at low price, wide availability, economical to purchase, operate, and maintain, substantial company behind it, versatility, service and parts available everywhere, easy to maintain with simple tools, easy to operate, ability to handle most any road, and more. They're still popular today, for most of the same reasons. If Ford was free to manufacture and support new 1919-27 Model Ts at equivalent dollar prices, I'd buy at least several of them, and use them extensively. I'd love to use one daily, if I chose to, knowing I could replace it in a few years with an identical new one at low cost, and knowing that original quality parts were available at the same prices.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:53 am

. . . If Ford was free to manufacture and support new 1919-27 Model Ts at equivalent dollar prices, I'd buy at least several of them, and use them extensively. I'd love to use one daily . . .

If Henry had had his way, maybe we could today ! The inflation calculator reckons FOB prices for a T today would be in the $5,000 range.

Ford was, I believe, the largest auto manufacturer by 1906. Canny enough to understand that availability was possibly the most important key to success, growing sales led to economies of scale that other companies could never hope to match, and rather than "gouge", the savings were passed on to the customer, profits made up for in volume - an unbeatable spiral.

Honestly, prior to 1913, and for a few more years, worthy machines in the same price range may have owned a performance and appeal equal to the Model T, but they could not compete with the Ford organization's "universal" reach.

In 1919, if you broke down 200 miles from home, likely you wouldn't have been able to get major parts to repair your 1912 Whizzix. The Ford driver wouldn't have had such a handicap.

In addition to the above, It doesn't eat unless you drive it, whereas a horse or mule will need to be fed even when it is parked. It is also easier to throw a little sand on the oil drippings than to clean out a stable.
Norm

Todays jabbering anti-IC crusaders are a pack of benighted fools, led by a cabal of hyper-wealthy, jet-set, crackpot-tyrannists.

Maybe simple economics was the original draw, but I believe it goes beyond that. We don't buy, restore & collect them today because they make economic sense, (unless you're comparing them to Packards), the way they did in their day. Maybe some of what we feel today is nostalgia and history, but the feel you get behind the wheel goes even beyond that. These cars have a way of burrowing into our hearts, (not to sound too corny or mushy). They are like old friends, who are always there when we need them. When they need us, we simply return the favor. They take us places where we would not normally travel. They introduce us to other, similarly afflicted, individuals who have become our good friends. Honestly, I think nothing has changed in those regards, and that Model T did exactly the same for people of their era.

I don't think the lure of the Model T was ever explained better than in the writings of E.B. White, "Farewell My Lovely". http://wesjones.com/white1.htm

The title alone evokes the emotion surrounding the Model T Ford.

Supply and demand. Make a good product for a reasonable cost for average people and it will sell. This will always be true.

A really practical electric car at an attractive price would sell well to a fairly large market segment today, were one available. As things stand, really inexpensive, practical cars of any type have been legislated out of the USA. In a free market, today's electric cars have a long way to go to compete with IC powered cars. The same was true 110 years ago, for many of the same reasons.
Some hybrid cars of today are genuinely practical for some segments of the market.

If Ford was free to manufacture and support new 1919-27 Model Ts at equivalent dollar prices...

I believe the original idea of the T-100 project for the company's 100th anniversary was to make a hundred new 1914 Model T's. Without the original economy of scale when they made Model T's in the millions, only 100 would have been very expensive. But the big obstacle was that being copies, they would have been new 2003 cars that looked like 1914 T's. Without modern features required by law in new cars, they would not have been street legal. So they made six. Four of them are used at Greenfield Village, where they are driven on private property, and never venture out on public roads. I don't know where other two are.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:52 pm

If Ford was free to manufacture and support new 1919-27 Model Ts at equivalent dollar prices...

I believe the original idea of the T-100 project for the company's 100th anniversary was to make a hundred new 1914 Model T's. Without the original economy of scale when they made Model T's in the millions, only 100 would have been very expensive. But the big obstacle was that being copies, they would have been new 2003 cars that looked like 1914 T's. Without modern features required by law in new cars, they would not have been street legal. So they made six. Four of them are used at Greenfield Village, where they are driven on private property, and never venture out on public roads. I don't know where other two are.

Steve,

I understand that Ford World H.Q. has one of them. Honestly, I thought they only made 5. FWIW, I got a ride in one of them when they were brand new. I never heard such a silent transmission in any Model T. They did not last however, and all of the cars still in use have original type planetary gears now.

I thought they only made 5.

I read that there were six, and one went to Europe. But I read it on the internet.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:35 pm

I thought they only made 5.

I read that there were six, and one went to Europe. But I read it on the internet.

It's also possible that I could be mistaken. It happens...

They made 6. The reason the transmissions were so quiet was because the gear teeth were cut to modern angles. The drawings given to the gear cutter had the original tooth angles and he refused to cut them that way. As far as why the didn’t last, abuse is the main reason.

Barry Loucks

Helical cut gears are usually quiet and long-lasting. However they may introduce some side thrust, which would require redesigning the whole assembly. Herringbone gears can be both quiet and extremely durable, but the cost would probably excessive.

New frames, crankshafts, and engine blocks, and oil pans, in addition to the new sheetmetal and other parts already available, would go a long way toward keeping the breed alive.

It wasn’t helical cut or herring bone gears. Some time in 1920’s-30’s??? Someone figured out if the angles on a straight cut gear tooth was cut differently they were quieter when they meshed. There was no need to take into account thrust, it was the simple change in gear tooth angles. Sorry don’t have my old machinery handbook close by. The transmissions were quieter because the straight cut gears used the modern profile. I drove one too when they were new. They were amazing. Not like my at the time 90 year old touring car.

Barry

Now that the topic has drifted to the "Centennial Six", I can't help wondering how much those cars cost !

I like the sound the later straight cut gears make. Drive a '48 Ford pickup with a 4-speed. If it's in good condition, the gear noise is music. A 72 4 speed has helical gears except in granny low and reverse, and they make a pleasant sound at a much lower level. Model A gears seem to be prone to make a racket, but I don't know how worn the ones I have driven may have been.

At a national HCCA tour in Idaho, I git talking to a fellow with a nice but obviously driven 1915 T tourer. He was telling me of all the high dollar cars he had at home, including a big National. When I asked him why he was using his T, his reply was. "I know it will make the dsitance1" There-in lies the answer. What other old car will outperform an early T?

Allan from down under.

A Dodge would out-do a T, but they cost significantly more money to buy.

People drive model T’s today for the same reason they did when the cars were new. They’re cheaper than anything else available.

Your right Eric! If you want to restore or work on a real antique car Model T’s are the way to go. And even at todays prices. A nice 57 Chevrolet hardtop is 3 times the price of a good running Model T! And a 65–68 Mustang fastback ain’t real cheap either.

Obviously the original draw was price. Now I think we’re attracted to it’s simplicity in a complicated world. I’m sure everyone has noticed that the Model T attracts engineers like flies to s**t.

Andy

Pat, there were no Dodges about when early T's were on the roads. It took the likes of Dodge brothers and Chevrolet well into the late teens before they caught up with Ford. They went ahead after that, because Henry stuck with an outdated concept which rode on reputation. Of al the pre 1918 cars entered in our annual Bay to Birdwood run, the only one to beat my 1912 chocolate van through the hills to Birdwood was a Rolls Royce silver ghost.

Allan from down under.

Allan wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:12 pm

Pat, there were no Dodges about when early T's were on the roads . . .

Don't forget Dodge Bros. were providing Ford with a significant amount of Model T chassis components before 1915 when they launched their own complete automobile.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:35 pm

I thought they only made 5.

I read that there were six, and one went to Europe. But I read it on the internet.

Hi Steve. You are right - the European one is in the Ford Heritage Centre garage in Dagenham, Essex, in the United Kingdom. I used to go there quite a lot for work. I knew it was built for the 100-year anniversary, but I didn't know the detail of the story behind the six cars until just now.

The garage is fairly rough-and-tumble but has some really amazing stuff in it. It was maintained by two fantastic guys - Ivan Bartholomeusz and Colin Gray, plus their dead boss who they both swore blind used to talk to them and move stuff around the shop. Unfortunately Colin also died a few years ago. I really liked hanging-out with these guys - they knew how to fix everything from the Ts to the GT40.

Here's a story about it (the 100R car and two other 'real' ones are in the second photo down) - https://www.carthrottle.com/post/fords- ... head-porn/

I was fascinated by that car and it's pretty much the reason I ended-up getting my Model T.

Growing urban populations diminished the Model T market. Market saturation was also a factor. The Model A retained most of what endeared the Model T to farm folk, while its improved fitness for urban traffic situations and better rural highways broadened its appeal. The basic Model T layout, much-modified, lasted through 1948. Many regions in the USA made do with 1910-era road conditions until after WWII.

I think the love affair with the model T is a combination of most everything already mentioned. I do believe price was in the top 5 reasons but not number 1. I think reliability takes that spot. Price created the volume of cars bought and the volume sold created a large number of people that learned how to repair them. That created confidence that if something went wrong someone would know how to repair it. Parts were becoming readily available for the T and that added to the confidence level for choosing a T. You sort of saw the same thing with the introduction of the Volkswagen in the USA. Slow start at first but for thousands of WWII VETS that had knowledge of the durability of the people’s wagon and the price volume escalated. Just a thought!

Here's a video presentation by the guys who maintain the centennial Ford T's and other vehicles at greenfield village. It's a tad long but excellent. they discuss the 'new' transmission gears, use of E-timers, driver training and many other things. I think some of the posters on this thread were there for the talk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM09DBBs1Jw

The Vega was cheap, but it was not a good value. The Yugo was cheap, but it was not a good value.

Model T’s are popular today for the same reason as when they were new. They are cheaper than anything else.

V, A, L, U, E, period.

$440 in 1916 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $12,076.59 today.
Other cars on the lower side were around $2,500 which equates to more than $68,000.

Henry Ford was the right person at the right time. He had the vision, and the drive to make it happen. Several other people had similar plans, were however unable to make it happen. Ransom E Olds topping that list. His "Curved Dash" model was intended to become the "every man's" car! However, he lost the fight with his bankers (as did Henry in his first two companies!) and was unable to maintain his focus with the Reo automobile. The Maxwell was another on the leading edge for an every man's car, and their sister car the Brush targeted every man as well, albeit too little too late.

And then the model T was the right car at the right time! From the beginning, Henry knew he had to improve designs to a point where the car could be built well and for a reasonable price! He knew that he had to experiment with metallurgy as well as mechanical designs. He knew that he had to spend a few years and go through several models in order to do that. When it was time for the model T to come out, he was nearly ready.
And then the magic happened, and everything fell into place. The designs, the production facilities, the resulting economies of scale. The car was everywhere. The parts were everywhere. People that could fix it were everywhere.
The ubiquitous model T was everywhere!

In the early T years, there were a great many car brands with a wide variety of offerings from the bottom to the top of the price range. Brands came and went, and designs came and went. Then, even more so than now, price did not always reflect quality, good design, and dependable, practical functionality, and some otherwise good cars at attractive prices suffered from lack of factory support and inadequate dealer/service support, if any.

Ford offered a durable, practical car at a good price and established a distribution and support operation second to none. Ford offered high value for low price, and very quickly made good product support available nationwide. The early Ts were rather showy cars. As time went on, they became more practical and less showy, even as they became an even greater value at substantially lower prices.

Volkswagen had great success with a product and a business model that had much in common with Ford's product and business model during in the T era. It wan't until 1932 that Ford broke with the one model plan, and Ford cars through 1948 were still patterned after the Model T layout.

I think the simple answer is that Ford built a very good car in very high numbers for a very low price. Many people went from the horse to the T and Henry just kept building them for 19 years. People knew the T and trusted its reliability.......in reality the T should have ended in 1925 but Ford did not want to let it go and their were people still willing to buy the older trusted and proven Model T.

Fast forward 100 years and I find myself enjoying my Model T's over my Model A's but my reasons are more to do with driving American History and the fact that after so many years the T is still reliable. I also like the attention the Model T gets and I try to get people interest in going out and find one for themselves.

I think thee is one important point that has been missed. Yes it was cheap and reliable but it was also capable of being driven in terrain that stopped other makes from doing so. very few cars had the agility of the Model T. This feature shows up regularly in Australian newspapers where reports often featured stories of Fords going to places which before had be impossible to get to by motor car.
One such story happened in 1911 when the South Australian Premier decided to visit a remote area of the state. His trip turned into a nightmare when the car broke down in sand hills and his party was forced to spend the night in the their car in rain while the driver walked 25 miles to find help. After the event finished the Premier released a statement declaring "the west coast is no place for motor cars"
In following days a telegram was received by the newspapers from a Ford driver in which he said. “With reference to the Premier’s statements that the West coast was no place for motors. I have twice negotiated the sand near Elliston (which proved so formidable to his car) in a “Ford” without the slightest trouble.
One of the Ford dealers in New South Wales had a roadside display which says it all

I think in rural areas the magneto had something to do with it. Where I live there was no electricity until after WW2 so a car with a completely dead battery would leave you stranded. You can simply start the T on mag and go on to town. There wasn’t any phone to call for a boost either. I’m sure back then there was a lot more crank starting than there is today especially if you were out on a farm and money was to tight to afford a battery.

There are a lot of posts on this thread. I have read them all but might have missed one reason. So I will post it now. The T was so popular that almost every city and small town had at least one Ford dealer. That being so, parts and service were readily available to everyone. Not only from Ford dealers, but from Western Auto and Pep Boys as well and later at other parts companies. I can remember when they even had rebuilt engines at those independent dealers. They had coils and carburetors timers and other parts. There were also independent garages which would repair Fords.
Some of the more expensive car dealers were and still are are only available in larger cities.
Norm

Another plus for the T was its light weight. On bad roads, if the car bogged down in mud or sand, there was a good chance that Pa and the boys could wrestle it out of the mudhole/sand pit. That would be much more diffcult with a car that weighed 2,000 to 3,000 lbs, besides lacking the T's high road clearance and great flexibility.

"Cheap and reliable" certainly come to mind first, as has been amply pointed out. However, there may be other, more intangible factors that led to the car's huge success. Although the T would never be considered a "status" car, it was nevertheless a symbol of the buying power of the emerging working class. Would you really want to be the lone holdout in a neighborhood where new cars were showing up in front of everyone's house? What would that say about you? I suspect that then-as now-many purchases were made due to societal pressures. And given the tremendous support and availability of service from Ford or just about anyone with a wrench--there weren't too many reasons NOT to buy a Model T.

Lets say the Model T was "inexpensive". But like cars Today, the cost of operation is a driving force. Parts availability, upward/downward compatibility , and aftermarket accessories are great influences. The number of old photos showing stripped down T's whether for racing or for the hobbyist tell the tail. Bolton after market performance parts always made many cars "popular". It was the "people" who like to tinker with cars that keep them on the road.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:35 pm

I thought they only made 5.

I read that there were six, and one went to Europe. But I read it on the internet.

One at the WW HQ
one at the European HQ in Dagenham near London
four at the Greenfield Village.

I had an experience with a Model A which I'm sure would also apply to a T. I drove the car from Azusa, Ca up San Gabriel Canyon to a place called Crystal Lake. This was in winter and at the higher elevation the road was covered with snow and ice. The heavier cars were sliding all around but I was able to go right up without any chains! I was so proud that I went back and did it again. The light weight with the narrow wheels I think is the reason why.
Norm

I drove the car from Azusa, Ca up San Gabriel Canyon to a place called Crystal Lake.

That takes me back to 1946, the summer I turned 5. Dad was a small town boy. He lived in the city for work, but whenever he had a chance we headed for the mountains. I suppose somebody at work recommended Crystal Lake. He was pretty disgusted when we got there and found the place crawling with humanity. It might as well have been Broadway.
They weren't biting at Crystal Lake. Crowds probably scared them off.

Wide tires may help in sand and certain kinds of mud. I get better results with tall, narrow tires in deep mud and snow, especially on a 2WD vehicle.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:53 am

High value at low price, wide availability, economical to purchase, operate, and maintain, substantial company behind it, versatility, service and parts available everywhere, easy to maintain with simple tools, easy to operate, ability to handle most any road, and more. They're still popular today, for most of the same reasons. If Ford was free to manufacture and support new 1919-27 Model Ts at equivalent dollar prices, I'd buy at least several of them, and use them extensively. I'd love to use one daily, if I chose to, knowing I could replace it in a few years with an identical new one at low cost, and knowing that original quality parts were available at the same prices.

Ford is free to manufacture anything that it wants. The problem with building a T today is that it doesn't even come close to meeting the present safety, crashworthiness, or emission standards. It would be off-road only. The same is true of the other Model T - the type 1 Volkswagen.

The problem with building a T today is that it doesn't even come close to meeting the present safety, crashworthiness, or emission standards. It would be off-road only.

I believe the initial plan was to make a hundred of the 1914 repops until somebody realized they wouldn't be street legal because of the requirements for new cars. The few that were made and are now used at Geenfield Village never venture off private property and onto public roads.

And now the politics--

This statement about replica 1914 Model T Fords -

"I believe the initial plan was to make a hundred of the 1914 repops until somebody realized they wouldn't be street legal because of the requirements for new cars."

No one has a problem with an operational replica of a Colt "M1911A1", a WW2 Reproduction Pistol.

And both are regulated......

Off course, I did not make the above observation, it came from a friend.

(Remove if a problem)

What made model Ts popular?

Horses.

Plain and simple........

Who drives a Colt on the road these days?