MTFCA Forum

I've been thinking, and that can be dangerous. Is it possible to use a 6v coil and capacitor per cylinder and use a comutator to collapse the circuit to fire the secondary winding? Just ruminating, i know having original coils rebuilt would be better for authenticity, but I am currently running a distributor...so.

I guess it would work, sort of. The coils would draw too much current at lower speed, since the "points" would remain closed a comparatively long time. Since the high voltage is induced when the circuit is broken, timing would be an issue, unless a custom commutator was developed. I'd expect the commutator contacts to burn up rapidly, too. I think you could use modern coils with a master vibrator and a regular commutator, but a stock system would probably be cheaper and work just as well.

There was a posting on this forum may years ago where someone did just that. However, the existing Ford coils were used with the points bridged out - which is similar to a modern coil. It apparently worked. No further details were given, but I would expect the timing position to be somewhat different since the coil fires when the timer contacts break, rather than make. I'd also imagine something like an Anderson timer to be more effective than a roller timer since you want a very rapid and definite break when the contacts open. Ford coils wouldn't tolerate continuous 6V across the primary for very long so the car would need to be got running as soon as possible, or include a ballast resistor. Modern coils would probably be better in this application.

A 4-lobe cam to replace the timer rotor and a set of modern points and condenser mounted inside a gutted timer case would be the way to go. You'd have to find a way to keep oil and oil vapor out of the timer case or the points would fail very quickly. Some type of electronic conversion for point type distributors, like a Petronix for a Model A, might be adaptable to replace the timer and buzz coils.

Hee hee hee. Deja vu all over again. I asked approximately the same question a few centuries ago when I got my first T. What a butt kicking I got !! There were some real hard liners here back then.

Thanks for the input. Maybe something I attempt on a stand motor in the future. I like the idea of using a modified dist. to fire the coils.

Charlie, good to know the patients has grown for those of us who are foolish enough to share our wild random thoughts.

The current generation will ask if there is a way control the timing with Bluetooth………sad.

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Hi Sean,
I'm not sure there is any advantage to using 4 modern coils because 1 is capable of doing the job. Some believe the advantage of the T coils
is the very hot multiple spark. ( other than that's the way Henry made it) Very hot multiple spark can be achieved with a distributer using
a MSD spark controller. Most distributers can be converted to electronic. Mike you may be behind the curve on the blue tooth thing ( pun
intended ) See centerlinealfa.com they have a blue tooth ignition control module for electronic ignition for 1981 & older 4 cylinder engines.
I know one person using MSD on a T and swears by it.
Craig.

A stock system *with properly adjusted coils* will work very well, is very reliable, and it offers easy starting, including "free starts". The only "fussy" part of the original system is the timer, which does need regular service, like many other items on the T. A New Day timer, etc, or an I-timer eliminates that issue. A stock system with a good magneto and an improved timer is hard to beat.

Advantages of a stock system:

(1) It is what the car was built with.

(2) It offers several ways to start the car: A: Free start B: Use starter, if equipped, or crank manually, either on battery or magneto C: Push or pull car, using either battery, if equipped, or magneto.

(3) The failure of any one part of the system usually won't disable the car, and it can be diagnosed and serviced/repaired on the roadside, if need be, in almost all cases.

When the big computer in the sky crashes you don't want anything controlled by a computer or blue tooth. The existing coil and magneto system should work as long as fuel is available. Maybe the bootleggers can keep us in alcohol if the gasoline supply stops.
Norm

Norman.. your comments on computer and Bluetooth crashes are significant.,.. tells me I shouldn't trade our Model T in on a Tesla .. ???? ..., LOL

That might work with a good AC power source, otherwise you need the points added somehow.

Other than the fact that the commutator times the firing of the coil as a "make" circuit and a modern coil fires upon the "break" cycle, it's a fine idea

I've often wondered if my car would go faster on Jet fuel, or if breaking my tv screen would let the little people out.

Given the behavior of most of those little TV people, I wouldn't want to let them out.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:59 pm

Given the behavior of most of those little TV people, I wouldn't want to let them out.

Too late, those little TV people are already running wild in the world! MaHaHa!

Any idea why Henry replaced magnetos, buzz coils & timer's with the advent of the Model A? Was it cost, reliability, or a technology that everyone else was using?

Re: Model A: I'm guessing that the change to a sliding gear transmission had a lot to do with it as well as the Model A engine's higher RPM capability. The T ignition system is good to around 2000 RPM or a little more. The Model A engine was capable of sustaining 2400 RPM, and had higher compression. The A system was also less susceptible to thieves. The first few As had a multi-disc dry clutch, but most As used a single plate dry clutch. Ford went to a belt driven water pump and "powerhouse" generator with the earlier As. The powerhouse generator was of large diameter, and more closely resembled the T magneto than it did conventional generators. Most As had a very conventional generator and starter. Cost may also have been a factor. Ford V8s used a unique Ford dual point distributor and molded coil for many years. The first really conventional ignition systems on Fords appeared on the 1949 V8s.

Frank can we consider that a rhetorical question?
Craig.

Craig Leach wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:38 pm

Frank can we consider that a rhetorical question?
Craig.

You could say that or "Tongue-and-cheek". Reason for the statement: every argument about the stock ignition system vs any alternative usually mentions "with properly adjusted coils". No argument on that. But there are more discussions about magneto issues than steering on the Forum. So I would imagine, like Today, minimal maintenance became the desired design prefernce (unless those who are hands on).

The Model T is a very simplistic design that allowed people in the day to afford one and work on it themselves. Over the years that has become less true for any automobile. Muscle cars of the '60s was about the last craze until the resurrection, for some, with so-called "Tuner Cars".

We all like to "personalize" our ride.

It will be interesting to see how EV dragsters evolve and how that changes the 1/4 mile. The human body can take so many G's

The Rimac Nevera has set a top speed of 412kph (258mph), making it the fastest electric production car in the world. The record-breaking feat follows on from the Nevera's independently verified 8.582-second quarter-mile run in 2021, which made it the world's fastest accelerating production car.

Top Fuel Dragsters race on a 1,000-foot course, while Top Alcohol Dragsters compete at the traditional quarter-mile distance. How long before a second EV class?

E-dragster: 2 large liquid-cooled motor wheels, mostly rubber, with a single G-seat between. Long, extensible boom to the front with weight and caster wheel. Steering and braking will be automatic, AI controlled. Power delivered from track inductively. Competition will revolve around which rider/G-seat combination can stand the highest G force without blacking out.

On-board power E-dragster: Similar to above, but with liquid cooled motors and batteries, AI-controlled wheelie bars, and limited driver steering.

Horse racing will be banned due to methane emissions, and many out-of-work jockeys will gravitate to EV dragster competition, with their small stature giving them an advantage in resisting G-forces.

Jockeys may still have a chance.
First the horseless carriage, now the horseless horse.

My neighbor Dennis "Kilowatt" Berube was fooling around with electric dragsters as far back as 1990. By 2008 he was running under 8 seconds
in the quarter mile @ almost 160MPH. He also had a S-10 pick up that would do 10 seconds in the quarter mile. The S-10 can be seen on
Street Outlaws on youtube. Don Garlits has been experimenting with one & some others have also. Seems to me someone has broken 200
MPH. They are pretty impressive but the loudest sound being the tires sticking to the track is kind if a turn off Google current
eliminator there are video's of Dennis's dragster & Don Garlits.
Craig.

At some point, perhaps by 2040, motorsports will be banned, and vehicular competiton will be limited to gravity powered platforms. At that point, activists will begin the long march toward a total global ban on all competitive activity of any kind whatsoever, war being the only exception. Governments do love their wars.