MTFCA Forum

So what would be some simple modifications to get a little more go out of your T? I take it a High Compression Head is the most bang for your buck? Not looking to anything major just maybe not slow down so much on a hill.

Ron, I'm pretty sure the sentiment you just expressed was the genesis of, what was it ? - over 2,200 accessories and after-market items that proposed to cure, augment or eliminate all of the failings of the Model T Ford, both real and imagined ! Further, the "need for speed" generated a whole industry for builders of speedsters, back then, and up to the present day.

Much depends on the condition of the T you own, and the in advisability of arbitrarily increasing compression in a half-worn out, tired engine. Unless you're going the speedster route, if you really want to "get more" out of your T, rebuild your engine, transmission and drive train to spec, as well as your steering, front axle and suspension. Fine tune your ignition with properly tuned coil units and a reliable timer. Make sure your tires are excellent and your wheels run true, in short, try out a "brand new" Model T, and then, if you find it wanting, you can start to experiment with "speed equipment", and perhaps either build a speedster, or swap the T for a car that performs to your expectations. Main thing is, have lots of fun and enjoy the journey your T takes you on. Some of the best trips I've known have been in Ts that were cobbled together from bits abandoned in the desert; tired, wheezing relics that barely ran, but wouldn't give up ! They're like that !

Are any of the original carbs better?

What year is your T?
Any of the original equipment works well but can be improved on.
Check/ replace the easy stuff first such as plugs.
The things that woke my 23 up were rebuilt coils from one of the rebuilders on the forum. A TW timer, Stan Howe rebuilt NH carb then a Prus head.
Do one thing at a time.
Good luck!

Hi Ron,
Are we talking about the beautiful 15 you have? If the engine is sound then there are many things you can do. As far as carbs go what is
the terrain you will be driving in? For hilly country I like a Kingston L-4 the flapper seems to help with lugging a engine down when it
comes to the correct mixture. If you have lots of flat terrain the N-H, I hear is hands down the best. I run a Kingston L-4 on my fire truck
that weighs in at 2000 lb. and find it quiet efficient. As far as bolt on items go a well built carb, high flow manifold and the dual exhaust
manifold is very good. I have seen very good results from that combination. If you are confident of the engines condition and it has stock
compression pistons then a H-C head is super especially with the manifolds. I run a A carb & header on my speedster and can do 55 mph
when it had stock gearing but lacked low end. after installing a Ruckstell & 3:1 gears I have no issue with hills and can do almost 70 MPH
( which is still 30MPH faster than you can stop at ) with a stock engine. I would bet some lessons from the Montana 500 guys would be
worth it's weight in gold if they can keep the real secrets from us.
Craig.

If you’re talking like NH. Holley G. Along with others that came on a T from the dealer probably not with maybe the exception of a straight through NH but that’s just from reading what other T folks have discussed. On one of my black cars I run a Stromberg OF, an aftermarket period carb with a high volume intake and I can tell a difference. On my 25 roadster pickup I have a NH with the high flow needle & seat courtesy of Scott Conger, it runs well. As you’ve already said the biggest bang for your buck would probably be a high compression head and/ or 7.5 degree timing gear as far as accessories go that are lower in cost

Craig Leach wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:21 pm

Hi Ron,
Are we talking about the beautiful 15 you have? If the engine is sound then there are many things you can do. As far as carbs go what is
the terrain you will be driving in? For hilly country I like a Kingston L-4 the flapper seems to help with lugging a engine down when it
comes to the correct mixture. If you have lots of flat terrain the N-H, I hear is hands down the best. I run a Kingston L-4 on my fire truck
that weighs in at 2000 lb. and find it quiet efficient. As far as bolt on items go a well built carb, high flow manifold and the dual exhaust
manifold is very good. I have seen very good results from that combination. If you are confident of the engines condition and it has stock
compression pistons then a H-C head is super especially with the manifolds. I run a A carb & header on my speedster and can do 55 mph
when it had stock gearing but lacked low end. after installing a Ruckstell & 3:1 gears I have no issue with hills and can do almost 70 MPH
( which is still 30MPH faster than you can stop at ) with a stock engine. I would bet some lessons from the Montana 500 guys would be
worth it's weight in gold if they can keep the real secrets from us.
Craig.

My 1915 will go faster than I am willing to drive and came equipped with a War-ford.

I find 35 to maybe 40 is about it so I am not looking for any major modifications for a stock 24 Coupe that I am getting soon. The car is in excellent shape with a rebuilt engine. So far I will be putting on a set of Rocky Mountain brakes and am thinking about maybe a high compression head to help with the hills. I do think the War-Ford is far better than a Ruckstell but I find myself using it very little and do not see the need to spend the money for one on the 24.

This is Elizabeth my soon to be...... new to me 1924 Coupe.

The Model T engine was limited on power output by poor fuel quality, and fuel quality declined as the T era continued. The early Ts had about 10% more HP than the later ones, besides weighing less. The low octane of the fuel required very low compression in order to avoid issues, and the 1907 combustion chamber design was laid out a decade or more before certain important advancements in chamber design were made.

Today, low octane fuel is not a limiting factor on compression ratio, and a number of aftermarket heads have been available for many decades that both increase compression substantially and provide much more efficient chamber designs. A good aftermarket head allows a bolt-on power increase of 15% to 25-30% with an otherwise stock or near stock engine, provided it is in good condition and in good tune. Most of the gain can be realized within the T engine's safe operating speed range. Aluminum pistons are highly recommended to reduce inertia loading.

Ron

that is a lovely car
I would not be in a huge hurry to "upgrade" anything until you had several long trips or tours under your belt and really discovered if it truly lacked for anything.
The reality is, Model Ts have never been known to charge up hills. Folks who expect otherwise sadly may have simply gotten the wrong era car.

like I said, it's a lovely car...congratulations and enjoy the ride

I will now yield the floor to those who have bought ex-500 cars, run them on singer sewing machine oil at 50MPH all day long and have never had to add air to the tires, and in fact DO charge up hills faster than a cat with a turpentined arse. Those cars are far and few between.

I thought I posted it last night but I don't see it.
Just remember if you add to the go,you need to add to the stop.
35-45 depending on conditions is a gracious plenty in a T.
If you need speed,get a hemi

I think some of you are missing my intensions as posted above. I feel a Model T good for 35 to 40 max and to be honest 30 is a good speed. My 1915 Touring is not stock (Came to me that way) and I have had it all the way to 58 once..... it was still pulling hard when I lost my nerve......The problem is that the T gets a little squirrelly when over 40 and a lot squirrelly over 55 so no thank you to experiencing that again. My 15 does not see War-Ford high that often as you need to be going over 35 to engage high.

That said I am keeping my 1924 Coupe stock with the exception of Rocky Mountain Brakes as I feel relying on the transmission brake by it's self is suicidal, and maybe a high compression head to help it up the hills (Not to outrun the Ford V8 lol ). Open to opinions but the brakes are a must have for me and I already have a set

Are any of the original carbs better?

Better than what? What is on the car now? Maybe I missed it.

I haven't installed a Ruckstell or an aux trans yet, and here in the relatively flat middle of the continent I haven't needed them. But from my reading over many years I think I want one of those and some aux brakes when I venture east of Wheeling or west of Denver.

I haven't installed a Ruckstell or an aux trans yet, and here in the relatively flat middle of the continent I haven't needed them. But from my reading over many years I think I want one of those and some aux brakes when I venture east of Wheeling or west of Denver.[/size]
[/quote]


If your going to spend the money get a KC War-Ford as you get over and under drive. At 2800 i do not think it's not needed but that's my opinion.

“I will now yield the floor to those who have bought ex-500 cars, run them on singer sewing machine oil “

Hey quit giving away all the secrets!

sharing is caring

PSSST:
The Secret is........ MARVEL MYSTERY OIL!!

Probably the most bang for your buck is Scott Conger's carburetor valve. You will be surprised by the difference in climbing a hill.

My engine has been rebuilt and is in good shape. I have aluminum pistons and a Z head. I also replaced the Holley G carb with a swayback NH. As posted in other threads, the NH made a surprising difference in performance as documented in side by side dyno tests on my engine with the different carbs. I've since installed one of Scott Conger's full-flow valves in the carb which helps on hills or when fuel is low in the tank resulting in lower fuel pressure. I also installed a ten-tooth pinion gear which provides a little better performance on hills and less stumble between low and high without sacrificing overall performance.

That looks very good to me. Torque, HP, and the speeds all look very good.

The installation of an E-Timer gave a noticeable improvement in hill climbing in top gear with my car.

Compression test. Gives you a great report on the engines condition. Do a dry then a wet.

Compression test. Gives you a great report on the engines condition. Do a dry then a wet.

Fine tune your ignition with properly tuned coil units and a reliable timer.

Good, simple, sound advice to insure optimal Model T engine performance. While the cylinder compression test follows is a well defined standard process using a standard gauge to directly measure the peak cylinder pressure during the compression stroke; "Fine tune your ignition with properly tuned coils and reliable timer" is subject to broad interpenetration, using various methods and tools. For example, accepted methods of coil tuning include:

1. Have a gifted coil guru assess sight and sound of coil points buzzing continuously as they adjust point gap and tension for proper operation.
2. Pop each coil in the trusty buzz box and tune the vibrator spring for 1.30A average coil current for proper operation
3. Engage someone with a venerable HCCT and extensive experience to precisely tune each coil for 1.30A average current and no double sparking
4. Use a Strobo-Spark to test/replace the capacitor by value and precisely tune each coil for 1.30A average coil current and no double sparking
5. Use an ECCT to test/replace the capacitor by value and tune each coil for equal and consistent firing time by precisely measuring coil firing time

Unlike the cylinder compression test, each coil tuning method listed can and does result in markedly difference engine performance results. Only those who have experienced each method of coil tuning can fully appreciate and enjoy the benefits of "Properly Tuned Coils".

Similarly, a "Reliable Timer" is also key to optimal engine performance but what exactly is a reliable timer? Some qualities include:
1. Coil activation is precisely synchronized with piston position
2. Coil activation it consistent and repeatable (no contact skip, wiper jump, roller bounce, flapper bounce)
a. Fixed contacts are clean, equally spaced, well maintained (some require periodic lubrication, some must not be lubricated)
b. Moving contact must be in fixed alignment with CAM, no relative movement as it rotates regardless of RPM, free to follow contact contour
c. Insulator is uniform, flat, smooth
d. Timer cover is properly centered about the CAM shaft. This is extremely important for mechanical timers to minimize cylinder to cylinder
ignition timing variation

In summary, all good advice but the devil is in the details. Performance optimization is less successful in my experience when one relies upon the same methods and tools that they have always used to ensure everything is "Properly Tuned". You know what they say about doing the same thing the same way but expecting different results.