1924 Coupe Gives Back Hidden Legroom

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:52 pm

I had my new to me 1924 Coupe delivered on 2/24/23 and I plan on making a few minor changes. First off removing the package shelf should give me an additional 5'' of legroom. Below are a few photos of her being dropped off by Bill from Bill's Auto Works. If you ever need a car transported I recommend him....very professional and excellent service.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:59 pm

So hear is what I started with. As you can see the package shelf takes up a lot of room and for a tall guy like me it's worth the effort to go after that valuable Real Estate. This will involve removing the package shelf, removing the gas tank, removing the seat riser and then reconstruction.

Joe Bell · Post by **Joe Bell** » Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:14 pm

Bill lives with in an hour of me and has hauled a few things for me, he goes out of his way to help, I have turned a few close friends on to him also!

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:25 pm

Joe Bell wrote: ↑
Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:14 pm
Bill lives with in an hour of me and has hauled a few things for me, he goes out of his way to help, I have turned a few close friends on to him also!

Bill was outstanding and if I ever need something transported I will be giving him a call !!! Bill told me he has driven over 4 million miles accident free and to me that speaks volumes.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:06 pm

Well I had a chance to get the seats out along with the package shelf. After measuring the edge of the package shelf to the bracket that screwed into the wood framing it looks like I will be able to gain 5 1/2 inches of legroom.....to me that is amazing and a total game changer in the area of driver comfort.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 7:25 pm

Got the gas tank out late last night and I am working on removing the seat riser tonight. Cannot wait to drive a T is utter comfort for the first time

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:38 pm

After some effort the interior slowly began to come out.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:30 pm

In your first picture, you do not look unusually tall. Must have a short torso and long legs. My dad was like that. He was 6' tall. I was only 5' 7" tall, but when we sat side by side on a bench, I was taller than him! Be sure you put your leg down all the way to the sloped floorboard and see if you can do it without completely straightening your knee. On a Model T, you need to be able to push the pedals all the way down and hold them tight to keep the bands from slipping. And you need to be able to bend the knee quickly to let the pedal into high. So don't lock the knee
Norm

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:17 pm

Norman Kling wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:30 pm
In your first picture, you do not look unusually tall. Must have a short torso and long legs. My dad was like that. He was 6' tall. I was only 5' 7" tall, but when we sat side by side on a bench, I was taller than him! Be sure you put your leg down all the way to the sloped floorboard and see if you can do it without completely straightening your knee. On a Model T, you need to be able to push the pedals all the way down and hold them tight to keep the bands from slipping. And you need to be able to bend the knee quickly to let the pedal into high. So don't lock the knee
Norm

That's funny but I can see how you thought that.....the man in the photo is Bill from Bill's auto Works. He was the man who transported my 24 Coupe from Norwalk, OH to Troutman, NC. When I stand next to the 24 Coup the T and myself are about the same height. To give an idea of my size hear I am in my 1915 Touring. I have long legs so gettin into my 15 is interesting but I can drive her. The 24 will soon have as much legroom as my 2005 Mercedes E320 CDI

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:59 pm

Well I got the seat riser out but I came across some hidden rot below the back window on the drivers side so this will slow me down until I can get all the rot out and make a wooden replacement part. any recommendations are appreciated.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:01 pm

Hear is the 24 Coupe with the gas tank removed along with everything that needs to come out.

Post by **John kuehn** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:28 am

The photos show what happens over many years of rain and moisture getting into the low areas of closed car bodies. To replace the wood in that area probably means the main wood frame rail also. To be able to get to the lower section of the body wood itself you would need to remove the body sheet metal and that’s a major undertaking. The other side is probably in the same condition.

I would clean out the dirt and rotten wood and fill it in somehow to be able to keep it level with the remaining lower body wood.

After nearly 100 years original wood begins to deteriorate and it might be best to leave alone if the body is still pretty stable. Otherwise it’s a wood structure rebuild thats a major undertaking. Time and money would be something to think about.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:37 pm

The right side is solid as can be but the wood on the right side just crumbled in a small area next to the window. I plan in buzzing the bad out tonight and making a patch. Its so isolated that I see no need to do any major reconstruction at this point. Overall I am impressed with the condition of the original wood......should be good for another 50 years or more at this point........with cars this old things like this are to be expected and it could have been much worse.

Post by **John kuehn** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:56 pm

The 24 Coupe I have had the bad wood almost in the same place. I cleaned it up the best I could and put a patch piece in it and called it good. There are purists that would have rewooded the whole body when finding bad or questionable wood. But not me. Luckily it had only one other place in the trunk and I replaced the bad wood with new as it easy to get to.

My 24 T belonged to my Grandfather and for the most part was not kept in the open. Yours must have been inside during its life too. Model T’s stored or left out behind the house or garage don’t last long exposed to the weather! I’ve seen a few that were and sadly rotted away!

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 7:54 pm

Hey John
I would not remove the 97% good wood because of a bad 3% lol

Did you screw the patch piece in or nail it?

Post by **John kuehn** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:40 pm

As I remember since it’s been over 10 years ago seems like I leveled out the wood as best as I could and laid a piece of wood in it. Screwing the wood down worked best since nailing might split the wood. When you screw the patch down and if the hole would be over the main frame rail it would be best to help secure as good as you can since your screw would maybe go into the wood frame rail. Drill a small hole first and the install the screw or fastener. Others might have other ideas how to do it.

Since it’s been opened up the way that it is. Now would be a good time to use air to blow out the years of dirt and debris that’s gotten in the open places between the body sheet metal and wood.

Post by **JTT3** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:17 pm

you think you should add glue and clamp it too?

Post by **John kuehn** » Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:02 pm

Wouldn’t hurt to pour some good grade wood glue and spread it. Maybe clamp it if you can. I used wood glue in the trunk support piece that I made and you can’t tell the difference. I then added the new replacement trunk floor that I needed.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:46 pm

With the help of my good old Buzz Tool I was able to cut the rotted wood out of the floor on my 24 coupe. I cut back to solid wood and boy do you need to be a contortionists ......I sat on the driver side running board with my right hand holding a board under the bad body wood so the tool would cut through the rot and scratch the splash aprion. Then my head twisted around the door opening to see my work and I buzzed the rot out with my left hand (I am right handed). Long story short I think it cleaned up good and I plan on making a patch out of a 2x6 in the morning. My plan it to drill through the original wood and attach the wood patch with screws and glue.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:25 am

Will you need to move the battery and will the gas tank fit ahead of the muffler? It might be dangerous to put the tank right over the muffler especially if near the sediment bulb.
Norm

Post by **John kuehn** » Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:33 pm

Norm makes a good point about the location of the gas being thought out. Safety becomes an issue when gas tanks get to close to a muffler in any car. Maybe some type of shielding from the muffler? These days modern vehicles tanks are next to or close to exhaust systems but T’s weren’t built with safety being a major concern as cars are now.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:11 pm

John kuehn wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:33 pm
Norm makes a good point about the location of the gas being thought out. Safety becomes an issue when gas tanks get to close to a muffler in any car. Maybe some type of shielding from the muffler? These days modern vehicles tanks are next to or close to exhaust systems but T’s weren’t built with safety being a major concern as cars are now.

The Gas tank will not even be close to the muffler. I am moving the seat back 5 1/2'' however the gas tank in its original location was 3 inches or so in back of the seat riser. Long story short I am just moving it back about 2 1/2'' and that portion of the tank will be shielded by the trunk steel floor. I am not making the hole any larger but thank you for keeping safety in mind. As for the battery its going to be close. The battery will fit into the original cutout but I may have to move the battery holder back an inch or two making it even with the back of the cutout in the trunk.....we will know for sure shortly.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:18 pm

Today I worked on making my wood patch piece and that was a bugger to get right but its now finished and painted.....just need to screw it in. I then moved on to bracing the backrest on the wooded framing sections that once had the package shelf screwed into it. Basically I took a piece of wood a bit shorter than the package shelf and screwed it in across. I then took the metal bracket that was on the package shelf and installed it on the new piece of wood......this lets me hook the backrest in just like it did on the package shelf. I am going to have to remove the backrest to finish reconstructing the seat but below you can see how it turned out. In my opinion it looks just like a pre 1924 Coupe.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:58 pm

Well I just did a mockup to see if my measurements were right and I got my 5 inches

I think it looks just as if Henry made her that way for tall people

. Lots more work to get it all together but the juice was worth the squeeze and look at all that room behind the starter button

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:10 pm

That really looks good.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:11 am

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:10 pm
That really looks good.

Thanks Pat. I still have some work to do with mounting the tank and nailing or maybe screwing everything down but I wanted to see how it would look and I am happy with the results. Last night I raised the bracket that I made to get the backrest up to the rear window level and in my opinion it looks better. Not sure if it was that high back in 1924 but the car came to me with it a few inches below the window.

I am very happy about the distance behind the starter button as it looks like I gained 5 1/2 ''. Not sure what the distance is on the pre 24 Coupe body style but I can tell you the 24 now has loads of room

Post by **KWTownsend** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:16 am

Nice work.
I've never had a car with a starter. I hope with the starter button so far forward won't be an issue. I wonder if it could be recessed to avoid unwanted engagement?

Post by **TXGOAT2** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:00 am

If you start with the ignition on battery and run on magneto, adding a starter solenoid in series with the starter and using the original starter switch to activate the solenoid, with the original starter switch connected to the battery terminal on the ignition switch, would serve to de-activate the original starter switch except when the ignition switch was turned to battery. Using the same connections, you could also move the original starter switch to where you wanted it relative to the seat, and attach it to the floorboard instead of the frame bracket, using a 2 wire flat trailer plug to attach the wires to the switch.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:09 pm

Due to my long legs I do not think the starter switch location is going to be a problem but if it is i see no reason why that could not be moved back as well.

Post by **Moxie26** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:19 pm

You may need a longer 0/2 guage cable from the switch to the starter.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:23 pm

Do you guys think it looks better with the backrest raised to the rear window height? I think it does.

Post by **JTT3** » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:28 pm

I guess the real question is- does your back say it feels right?
Ron really good customization. Best John

Post by **Susanne** » Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:53 am

This reminds me of a topic in the Ford Service Bulletins about the Improved cars and increasing legroom in the coupes... I wonder if this was being done back in the day, and Ford finally realized it was a good idea to maybe make this available on all his cars... I always kinda thought the package tray was, well, silly on the coupes, since you have a whole turtledeck to store stuff in... but then again I'm looking at this 100 years after the package tray was deemed a good idea...

OTOH, if you were of average or shorter stature, you wouldn't want that extra legroom. I see a LOT of marketing stuff showing the Coupe was marketed to women... who were notoriously shorter than their 100 years later counterparts. So I wonder if the "package tray" was actually space filler to make the car easier for women to drive...

IDK, just woolgathering...

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:26 pm

In the old days before the seat belts and kids seat laws, that shelf made a good place for small children to ride. I did myself when a boy. We also had a small dog who would jump in the car and immediately perch on the shelf.
Good also for such things as umbrella or other things one might want to store inside and not have to go out to get it when needed.
Norm

Post by **Duey_C** » Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:33 pm

It sure looks better to me! And the added leg room. Ahhh. I'm tall also. Makes me rethink my love for cramped Runabouts.
John asks it correctly: How's your back like it?
That's not crazy Suzanne. Not at all.
And you could use the driver's door!

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:13 pm

Duey_C wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:33 pm
It sure looks better to me! And the added leg room. Ahhh. I'm tall also. Makes me rethink my love for cramped Runabouts.
John asks it correctly: How's your back like it?
That's not crazy Suzanne. Not at all.
And you could use the driver's door!

I knew the pre 24 Coupe's had a bit more legroom and was able to test fit a 1921a few years back to confirm. To be honest I think I found more room in the 24 with a little re-engineering. This modification makes the 24 or 25 Coupe amazingly roomy and trust me it's worth the effort if your tall. At 6'3'' and having long legs I have more room than I need and can actually stretch out.

The seatback feels much better being raised to the back window level so that's it's new home as far as I am concerned..... It also looks better proportioned in my opinion. I hope this trend someday helps someone else find the legroom in a 24 or 25 Coupe that they are looking for. Its not hard to do just take your time and if you find hidden rot fix it.....

Ron

Post by **BHarper** » Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:12 am

I have a 1924 model year coupe. As has often been stated, people were smaller (in stature and girth) during the first part of the previous century and earlier.
I am 5'4", which makes me Model T sized, fun size. The car fits me quite well and I can use the driver's door comfortably.

I really appreciate the package shelf and use it all of the time. As Susanne commented,with a turtle deck to carry things, a package shelf may seem superfluous. I use the shelf to hold my sun glasses case, a small leather case for car registration, insurance card, and other papers, sometimes a water bottle may be there, my cell phone, my jacket if it has become too warm, maps, a small first aid kit, and small purchases made when out and about, or even an umbrella.

I Love my coupe.

Model T Ron · Post by **Model T Ron** » Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:52 pm

Mr. Harper at 5'4'' you are in luck that any T will fit you just fine. On my 15 Touring I had to remove the backrest springs and use foam and after all that I just about fit. Now on my 24 I finished everything up today including mounting the gas tank a few inches back and screwing the seat components back in position. At 6'3'' I have never experienced the joy of legroom that Mr. Harper has but with a little re-engineering I too can enjoy my 1924 Coupe. After everything was assembled I picked up all my tools and added a new rubber mat. Very satisfied with how it turned out.

Post by **tdump** » Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:55 pm

There was a post a while back about reshaping the hand brake lever to provide some room that way,I did it on my pickup and it is NICE to have that extra space. It takes 2 pipe wrenches and a few minutes to do.
Weil worth the trouble.
I can't remember where or how I learned about it but it was here on the forum

Post by **Duey_C** » Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:57 am

That view from the seat looks real fair Ron. Thank you!
Ooh, foam for a Touring seat back. Tim the ol' aviator did something there also but I forget.
Mack, I'm one of the hoodlums to zee the hand brake lever some years back and it is quite an improvement.
A few fellows had issues with/fears about breaking the lever but mine went smooth.