Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

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Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by JTT3 » Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:31 pm

If this post is not in compliance with the MTFCA / Forum I will delete my post & ask Chris to delete the thread.

In an effort to help with ideas on how we can make Chickasha pre-war swap meet a must go to event, what would you do.
I encourage your constructive input, try not to just be negative. Sure you have to talk about a problem but have a constructive solution to it that is practical and could be implemented with speed. Personal attacks probably won’t accomplish anything. Perhaps, with the brain trust that the forum holds, possible combined solutions can be offered & will help save & grow an important meet for the good of the hobby. I’ll start it off.

Have the MTFCA/MTFCI Boards meet at the event open to attendees to participate. This would also be an opportunity for other Major pre-war vehicle Club boards to do the same.

Best John


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:13 pm

What was the attendance like this year? Vendors? Shoppers?

I don't know if it would be helpful or not, but I've often wondered why a building has to be 75% empty when there are outdoor vendors who could be using the available space indoors? I'm guessing there are different rents, indoor versus outdoor, but I've got to believe a "compromise" rate could be established. The last time I was there it appeared that everyone could have been located indoors, (with cars for sale still outside maybe). Anyway, as I said, not sure if it would be helpful or not.

I'll also add, that when the Swap Meet is scheduled to open at a given hour, on a given day, and you find out that sales have been going strong since the night before, (or day before, or whatever it is now), it really makes you wonder if having driven 1200 miles and spending hundreds of dollars in gas was all worth it. :? Yes, I know, just get there earlier. Well fine, then advertise in advance that pre-sales will occur beginning at a certain time & day.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by ModelTWoods » Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:50 pm

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:13 pm
What was the attendance like this year? Vendors? Shoppers?

I don't know if it would be helpful or not, but I've often wondered why a building has to be 75% empty when there are outdoor vendors who could be using the available space indoors? I'm guessing there are different rents, indoor versus outdoor, but I've got to believe a "compromise" rate could be established. The last time I was there it appeared that everyone could have been located indoors, (with cars for sale still outside maybe). Anyway, as I said, not sure if it would be helpful or not.

I'll also add, that when the Swap Meet is scheduled to open at a given hour, on a given day, and you find out that sales have been going strong since the night before, (or day before, or whatever it is now), it really makes you wonder if having driven 1200 miles and spending hundreds of dollars in gas was all worth it. :? Yes, I know, just get there earlier. Well fine, then advertise in advance that pre-sales will occur beginning at a certain time & day.

I agree with Jerry that pre-opening day and hour sales (mainly between vendors) is not fair to retail buyers who drive from afar to only buy and not sell. However, I don't have a solution to the problem. As the saying goes, "Money Talks". Retail buyers have a similar problem, though, if a meet is big and they found out they missed finding the rare part they have been looking for by only hours or minutes because it took so long to cover the meet and find the seller who had what they were looking for when the meet opened, but had already sold it. For some reason, I never remember these problems, being a problem at Pate, Carlisle, or Hershey. maybe I was just lucky. I, do remember, one time at a swap meet in Columbus, Ohio, where I and another buyer wanted the same item and approached the vendor at the same time. The vendor flipped a quarter and I was allowed to call. I won the coin toss. Lucky, again..

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:00 pm

I'm afraid a large part of the decline in attendance for both shoppers and sellers is due to a shift toward internet sales. If that's the case, I don't know what can be done to counteract it.

I don't blame old timers dying, because old timers have always died. Some will claim there's a decline of interest among young folks.

1 Old stuff, including vehicles, has always been very much a minority interest. When I was in high school in the fifties, I didn't know anybody who shared my interest.

2 The Model T groups on Facebook continually gain new members who ask the traditional new folks' questions. That doesn't suggest a decline of interest.

3 There is a steady stream of old cars for sale. They wouldn't be there if people weren't buying them.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:09 pm

Midwestern March weather is very uncertain. Some people face snow, ice, and salt en-route, and others may encounter violent weather of one sort or another, or howling winds and blowing dust. The weather in Chickasha in March can be marvelous or miserable.

I wonder if a Summer date wouldn't work better. Yes, it would probably be hot, but hot and dry beats snow and salt, or chilly rain and gusty winds. Some people have more free time in summer. Some places still let school out in summer, which might allow more young people, K-12 through college, to attend.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:12 pm

At least half of the draw for me, was visiting local car collections in the evening. For me, Don Bolton's collection was THE best. There were 2 other collections open to visitors as well. Both fantastic! Maybe there still is? It used to be a "word of mouth" thing, not heavily promoted, I guess. Just saying, some evening activities/visits would be an added draw perhaps? Just sitting and visiting is great too, of course. Maybe more to Steve's point about the internet sales detracting from "live" events, we need things that the internet can't provide. A big barbeque in the evening? Maybe an auction where vendors could consign some of their remaining items for a "last chance" sales opportunity? I'd hang around for that.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:21 pm

If you want good weather in the southern plains, you want May or June. You may get blown away, but you won't freeze, and you probably won't roast until July and August. Another consideration is whether the grounds are available when you want them.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by John kuehn » Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:08 pm

I’ve also wondered why the Chickasha meet has to be as early as it is. Sometime in May seems like a good time. Maybe the Classic car meets draws more than a T meet. I could understand why because the 50-70 year old guys want a car they grew up with like a 50’s or 60’s Ford or whatever. And for the most part that’s what most guys had in high school and not Model T’s. Just the way it is.
But I think this would be a good time for the Chickasha car groups to reschedule when their swap meets are. But would that happen? I would hope they would try but I don’t think so. There are other things going on at those grounds besides old car swap meets and everybody wants their piece of the pie but they’re only so much to pass around.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by JTT3 » Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:20 pm

Some good points & possible opportunities. My grand father & father use to tell me control the controllable, so unless someone has a heavyweight connection on the weather we will have to say other than date change it’s a crapshoot but still something to consider. Talked to someone a short time ago that said they had cleared several thousand dollars. They just brought parts & not a car so that sounds strong. Several have commented on the forum that they did well also. Almost every swap I’ve been to there has been pre buys or vendors trading with vendors. I’m guilty of the latter however I’ve also noticed that very little was resold there. I personally do that looking for items I personally need because I really wouldn’t have time to look once the event is open. I like the ideas of sponsored events/food. Here’s another I’ll offer:
Like in a mall, the smaller stores do better when the larger anchor stores are there. I know for a fact when the larger suppliers were there the traffic was greatly increase. A lot of pre-sold stuff was picked up but they still had a good inventory for walk up sales. I don’t know if it was profitable or break even or even a slight loss but it is one of those take one for the team things almost like a customer appreciation promotion. I been going for decades but you use to find 2 tire dealers, several major parts dealers & a couple of sheet metal vendors. Those were our anchor stores.
One last thing I recall that the west side of the parking area you’d find Dodge vendors & Chevy folks not to mention a few other brands. Keep them coming please. Best John

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by dobro1956 » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:40 pm

John, One of the things I have said for years is the vendors leaving early, really hurts the meet. There are lots of vendors who came to the "parking lot" part of the meet and then set up. The next day by noon they were packing up to leave. This year there were several people that came thru that asked why everyone was leaving or already gone. Last year there was a man who drove from Florida for the meet to have no one there for the Saturday part of the meet. He was very mad and said he will never return. I know people have obligations, but this meet is planned a year ahead of time. It should be no more of a problem for most folks to stay at least to noon on Saturday than to leave at noon Friday. I sold a lot of stuff Saturday. I even bought several things from the vendors who were still there Saturday. I think a formal "request" by the Erslands for the vendors to stay till noon Saturday may help some. Some large events "require" you to stay set up till 3:00 PM unless there is an emergency. I am going to an overlanding vehicle and camping expo in about a month with our T and vintage camping gear. We will need to be there by 8:00 AM Thursday for set up. They "request", we keep the booth open 8"00 AM till 8:00 PM Friday and Saturday. We can load out after 8:00 PM Saturday or Sunday. After setting up Thursday we cannot leave till Saturday after 8:00PM unless there is an emergency. That may be a little too much for the Chickasha meet, but a little "requesting" to not leave early may not hurt.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by moddamatt » Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:45 pm

Steve Jelf wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:00 pm
I'm afraid a large part of the decline in attendance for both shoppers and sellers is due to a shift toward internet sales. If that's the case, I don't know what can be done to counteract it.

I don't blame old timers dying, because old timers have always died. Some will claim there's a decline of interest among young folks.

1 Old stuff, including vehicles, has always been very much a minority interest. When I was in high school in the fifties, I didn't know anybody who shared my interest.

2 The Model T groups on Facebook continually gain new members who ask the traditional new folks' questions. That doesn't suggest a decline of interest.

3 There is a steady stream of old cars for sale. They wouldn't be there if people weren't buying them.
In reference to the interest from young folks, I have to say, it's not a lack of interest but a lack of proper outreach and misinformation. I'm 27 and besides the obvious grandchildren that were dragged there by their grandpa, I was probably the youngest person at Chickasha on Friday. Unfortunately, new car enthusiasts aren't interested in forums where "old heads" drag on about stock/traditional builds. We want modern social platforms and constant updates on builds/projects, not a weekly/biweekly forum post. Many of us are into 80s-90s Japanese and euro imports because that is what is shared on our platforms. And I'm not talking about facebook groups, most people under 30 hate facebook with a passion are instead on youtube, instagram, reddit, and tiktok. I have about 3600 people who watch my Model A videos on tiktok of all ages who are interested in prewar cars but think they are too expensive. As someone who maintains a model A and just recently bought a JDM car I can confidently say that they comparable in monetary value and hope I can get that message across to younger people. But y'all have to realize that we dont have 20 grand to spend on the car y'all built for 4ish grand in the 80s. We are just like you all use to be, we want the cheap, running car, that we can slowly work on/care for while we enjoy it, not the clapped-out rolling chassis that definitely needs an engine rebuild. Just my two cents, hopefully I can get more of my Gen into this part of the hobby.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:56 am

I was probably the youngest person at Chickasha on Friday.

One of the youngest, but I know three I believe are your age or younger. As for hating FB, I don't doubt that some young folks do. But I also see a lot of them turn up in the FB Model T groups along with us geezers.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:28 am

Social media sites, are they searchable like these club pages or are they just what they are, chat rooms for instant replies and feedback. Today's question or post is more or less gone by the end of the day. I do Facebook and that is what I see. There is some really good contend on some of the group's pages there, but the turnover of content is horrendous.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by moddamatt » Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:06 am

Oh I completely agree this site is a wonderful repository of saved information. But knowing what to search is half the battle and thats were to modern social sites can really help, Like for instance on Facebook and tiktok there is a group called the Flatspot the shares all sorts of surface level info with people from Basic OEM history to full blown lost stories from the track. That is what we need to funnel people to mtfca, mafca, vcca, and any other vintage car club forum.

A great example of a growing community is the Honda and VW forums, because of youtube channels like Hoonigan, Dount Media, and Fitment Industries, the forums that support those cars have a constant flow of new members with a good understanding of what they want to look for in parts and cars. Now I'm not saying this forum isn't healthy but lets be honest, like many older clubs in America the interest from younger people isn't what it used to be and the current running membership is aging at a rate that major knowledge bases are beginning to fade away. Watching my own parents deal with the fact that clubs like the Lions Club, Junior League, Knights of Columbus, are basically gone because of the lack of good outreach.

I digress, I am getting wildly off topic for this discussions original question. I apologize, I was at Chickasha for the first time this year and what I do have so ideas. Most of these are just general problems I see with swap meets and not just Chickasha
--First Friday should really be a setup day and not a sale day and the swap should last till at least lunch on Sunday if already doesn't. I was only there on Friday only and I can say I was a little disappointed, I figured there would a ton more vendors, but it seems most people really arrive late Friday and early Saturday, based on some the later pictures I saw. Hopefully I can see a full day Saturday next year.
--Second there needs to be a cash machine available for us to use, I went through all the buildings and didn't find anything, I ended up leaving the grounds and going to the Valero down the street. I know I should bring money with me, but traveling with large sums of money can be dangerous and, in some cases, get you arrested.
--Third, all vehicle and chassis spots should be in one place, preferably in a building to keep them safe overnight, and yes should be considered a separate spot from vendor areas. That alone would clean up the grounds and could be considered a kinda car show, that would allow people to see just the cars if that's what they want.
--I went in with my car to pickup parts and was told that they were having problems with people taking advantage of it and just staying in vendor spots, If there was dedicated tents around that were just volunteers on say golf carts that would take you to and from the parking that would help a ton... Parts are heavy and walking around with them even in carts is cumbersome.
--More refreshment spots, even just a person selling water bottles every so often, I know its cold but I still got pretty thirsty.

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Promote The Hobby

Post by FreighTer Jim » Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:25 am

Nothing is needed to make The Chickasha Swap Meet ....better
#2 diesel has risen nationwide over 50% since January of 2021
Covid has taken it's toll on older folks
Folks are getting older
The Interweb is increasingly competing

I promote swap meets by providing live coverage as my schedule
and budget allow as I travel the Country - to encourage attendance.

This Subject is being discussed over on Fordbarn ...
Rather than repeat my comments here - take a look:

@ https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324600

If you want to increase attendance at swap meets - bring Youth into the Hobby ...

I have advocated for years the idea of setting up Mentoring Programs
at the National & Local Chapter Level to pair up Model T Owners
with younger folks interested in the hobby.

It has become increasingly difficult to hold a steady job,
raise a family, pay the bills as time passes by.

Add to that - the financial burden of buying & maintaining a Model T.

It makes sense to reach out to younger folks at public venues by
staging Impromptu Gatherings at places like retail big box shopping centers,
parks, the neighborhood restaurant ....

If they show interest - invite them to take a spin in a Model T.
If interest grows - invite them to watch or turn a wrench.
Every chapter has members with Model T's that sit
in a garage of a member and go neglected.
If interest develops - pair up Model T owners
with younger members who have a serious interest
but cannot afford a Model T of their own.

The Future Depends On What We Do In The Present.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by ModelT46 » Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:24 pm

Yes we are getting older. I am 90 and have had an interest in early autos since I bought my 1910 T in 1946. I did not drive down this year because the sale times are so short. Let us put everyone inside. Start set up at noon on thursday and only let sellers in on Thursday. With the buildings full of vendors, perhaps more will stay around until Saturday afternoon.

If this is done, I will come down one more time. I still have some "good stuff"


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by John kuehn » Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:50 pm

The sales before the sellers are let in has always gone on. When people drive a good distance and expect the sales to start out on the grounds on a certain day and find out lots of parts already sold is a big turn off for more than a few people.
And yes they should have got there early and start snatching and grabbing along with other folks before the meet actually starts but that’s the way it is.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by NealW » Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:08 pm

This was only my 3rd Chickasha to attend, so unfortunately I don't know from firsthand experience how good the "old days" were. Since I only live 3 hours away, all three times that I've went have been on Friday morning. 2021 was my first experience, which was the first after the 2020 Covid cancellation and possibly when people thought that it was going to be the last one. I thought it was pretty good, and I found some good tools that I needed.

2022 and 2023 were similar in size IMO, and noticeably down in sellers and maybe buyers. Lotsa rusty tools and parts still for sale by Friday morning. Since I have most of the needed T tools now, I wasn't too disappointed that I didn't pick up any new tools, but I did look though enough to know that Ebay is probably the best place for people to look now for unique T tools in better shape and possibly a better price. Both this last year and this year my best find was an original Ford service manual (last year) and "Ford car, truck and tractor repair" textbook by Alfred Good. Ironically I bought both from the same vendor, one year apart. Even though attendance was down, I am glad that I went because I got to talk to a few people that I don't see every day, and I think that it is important to support shows like this or they will go away.

With that said, I do think that it would be better if they moved the "Friday" start to Saturday. I am fortunate to be retired now and "everyday is Saturday", but that's not the case for everyone to be able to take a day off to go to the show. We want younger people to be involved; making it more accessible to those younger who only have the weekend off (or limited vacation). I would have been really upset if I'd driven any distance and arrived on Saturday, only to find many vendors gone or already packing up.

Pre-selling is a double edged sword. We need people to show up to sell stuff, and if that is the main draw is pre-selling to get them there (so that they can buy the OTHER guy's good stuff), then so be it. Even though I don't have enough stuff to sell to warrant having a spot, each time I've went I've "presold" stuff on this site and taken the parts to Chickasha for deliver. I even sold some stuff to the OP of this topic! :)

Anyway, no easy answers. Internet sales of parts has obviously hurt these kind of shows, but also made it available for us to buy so many unique parts or tools than ever before. The high fuel prices has undoubtedly hurt vendor attendance the past two years. As I said earlier, the one change that I would suggest is that they move the opening day to Saturday to hopefully make it more accessible to people who work during the week and may have limited vacation to use.
Last edited by NealW on Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by BRENT in 10-uh-C » Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:25 pm

ModelTWoods wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:50 pm
I agree with Jerry that pre-opening day and hour sales (mainly between vendors) is not fair to retail buyers who drive from afar to only buy and not sell. However, I don't have a solution to the problem. As the saying goes, "Money Talks". Retail buyers have a similar problem, though, if a meet is big and they found out they missed finding the rare part they have been looking for by only hours or minutes because it took so long to cover the meet and find the seller who had what they were looking for when the meet opened, but had already sold it. For some reason, I never remember these problems, being a problem at Pate, Carlisle, or Hershey. maybe I was just lucky. I, do remember, one time at a swap meet in Columbus, Ohio, where I and another buyer wanted the same item and approached the vendor at the same time. The vendor flipped a quarter and I was allowed to call. I won the coin toss. Lucky, again..

Terry, I must disagree about the "not fair" comment. When we are really being honest with ourselves, the 'Retail Buyers' have the same opportunity to purchase items just as any of the Vendors have. They just had to put forth the effort to be there at the same time as the Vendors!! In times past, I have even made arrangements to purchase items ahead of time that were being brought to Chickasha by a vendors to sell. It really boils down to the effort someone was willing to make. Now, to even carry this thought even further, I remember 50+ years ago when my dad would go to the Conroe Swap meet, or Irving, or Decatur, or Pate, (-or you fill in the blank) where vendors would be lining-up in the wee-hours to get into the swap meet to setup, -and there my dad would be along with others making purchases (-and sales) prior to that swap meet ever opening their gates. Also, vendors went to Carlisle and bought merchandise that was sold the following week at Hershey. Buyers also attended Carlisle to often pick there before others saw the items being offered at Hershey. So this is definitely NOT something new, ...nor is it what has killed Chickasha.


As far as Chickasha goes, IMHO, it seemed there was a bunch of 'junque' (which is the kind word for JUNK :lol: ) there this year. Good stuff was selling however there was definitely a shortage of it there. Ask around how many brass-era vehicles were there for sale. Matter of fact, Mark Freimiller brought 2/3rds of all the brass-era vehicles that were in attendance!! :o Not a single Model-A that was for sale was present. On another forum I posted some pictures from 2005 when I came home with a 26' flatbed trailer & a pick-up bed nearly full of treasures I purchased at Chickasha. In 2019 I purchased a semi-full 6x12 trailer load of quality Model-A & T parts, ...and this year I could have easily put everything I purchased inside of a full-size automobile's trunk and still had room for my luggage and a cooler. This is not of Mike & Susi's doing!! The facility there Grady County is the best it has ever been in 30 years.

But, -with the above said, I had a phenomenal swap meet with my purchases and sales however I was willing to purchase quality merchandise at fair market prices. Therein lies the other side of this issue with Chickasha is many of the buyers I experienced were unwilling to pay fair market prices for items. Fair market means a realistic 2023 price. If an item will bring $50 at other places (swap meets or online) yet it is a struggle to get someone to even pay $30 for it at Chickasha, it doesn't take long for a Vendor to realize how they are wasting their valuable time & money attending such a swap meet to vend. And again, this 'frugalness' is not something new that has surfaced for 2023. When commercial vendors quit attending Chickasha because it is no longer a financial value for them to attend, then that proves the issue is real and not just a one year happening or something caused by COVID. Unfortunately, I think the precedence has been set for this meet and that is what has killed it.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:55 pm

The facility there Grady County is the best it has ever been in 30 years.

Boy, howdy! Those who experienced the old WPA-built "facility" will remember a north door with a concrete block tied to it in a failed attempt to keep the cold wind from blowing it open, and the vilest restrooms in the Western Hemisphere. The current meet has its problems, as we've been discussing, but the quality of the rebuilt venue is not one of them. :)
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by JTT3 » Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:34 pm

Forum let’s get some more solutions versus issues as requested in the initial post. Marketing is an opportunity. I checked several antique car sites and rarely found a mention of the pre-war meet. I did a search using pre-war & also Chickasha. Not much came up. Perhaps that part of a solution. There are dozens of old car sites/clubs are they getting emails, flyers? Are we chatting it up. Are we reaching out to the Major vendors as well as smaller regional vendors and inviting them? Would it make a difference if one side of the field & or building was considered pre/war & the other side 1945-1960? Are local clubs in the area being invited? Who’s got influence or contacts with the decision maker of major vendors that could be persuaded to come or come back for the good of the hobby and making presale for pickup to help offset just coming in blind. What about radio, city & local businesses that benefit or would benefit more during the swap meet. I may be wrong but I don’t think Chickasha is a tourist Mecca, so an influx of a couple hundred people over a few days does help those businesses and the city leaders should be asked about opportunities to grow the swap. Like my granddad use to same “ life is like playing cards, you don’t need a partner if you’ve got a good hand”. Take that with a bit of a smile but right now we don’t have a good hand and we need partners to turn this into a WIN!
Solve the problems. Best John

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:37 pm

I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by tdump » Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:59 pm

I have only been once and will be going back in 2025 if I am alive and able to press a gas pedal.
The premeet thing out in the parking lot? Shucks,that is where I was able to take time to talk and meet people,while they were not pressed to deal with someone in the retail setting,they could take a minute and say something in detail about a item or whatever that during "retail" hours they wouldn't have time to do.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by BRENT in 10-uh-C » Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:47 pm

JTT3 wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:34 pm
Forum let’s get some more solutions versus issues as requested in the initial post. Marketing is an opportunity. I checked several antique car sites and rarely found a mention of the pre-war meet. I did a search using pre-war & also Chickasha. Not much came up. Perhaps that part of a solution. There are dozens of old car sites/clubs are they getting emails, flyers? Are we chatting it up. Are we reaching out to the Major vendors as well as smaller regional vendors and inviting them? Would it make a difference if one side of the field & or building was considered pre/war & the other side 1945-1960? Are local clubs in the area being invited? Who’s got influence or contacts with the decision maker of major vendors that could be persuaded to come or come back for the good of the hobby and making presale for pickup to help offset just coming in blind. What about radio, city & local businesses that benefit or would benefit more during the swap meet. I may be wrong but I don’t think Chickasha is a tourist Mecca, so an influx of a couple hundred people over a few days does help those businesses and the city leaders should be asked about opportunities to grow the swap. Like my granddad use to same “ life is like playing cards, you don’t need a partner if you’ve got a good hand”. Take that with a bit of a smile but right now we don’t have a good hand and we need partners to turn this into a WIN!
Solve the problems. Best John

John, I tried to call you to discuss this a tad, but maybe we can break this down for a bit of further discussion. From my perspective;

#1) You can advertise in every manner possible HOWEVER until there are Vendors who are actually bringing a quantity of saleable merchandise (i.e.: items that people want/need) it really does not make an event successful where Attendees actually make it a priority to come back. More on this below.

#2) I honestly feel the attending professional Vendors are the ones that will advertise for the event in their own ads or website. (Example: Pickup your order at the 2024 Chickasha Swap Meet to save shipping.) If I am correct about 2023, out of all of the spaces available there were three major professional Vendors that setup (Russ Potter, Mike Francis, and Birdhaven). Others including a few small suppliers were there however IMHO none in the capacity to actually attract Buyers to come to Chickasha to buy something such as rebuilt engines, or pickup tire orders, buy new parts and take them home, etc. If the professional vendors do not see a ROI in them attending a meet such as Chickasha, then it is also likely the Attendees do/did not see a value in patronizing them at this meet. Quite honestly, I really do not think any amount of advertising in the world will overcome this for either side. Maybe I am wrong??

#3) Think about this, ...it appears there was not enough interest for even a single attendee to bring a brass-era or early 20's T to sell this year. This apparently applied equally for restored cars and/or unrestored cars alike. In other words, there was not a single early vehicle for someone who had money to spend to buy! Part of the attraction for any type of meet like Chickasha is for a spectator to come see the unusual pieces, or rare cars, and/or to find a dream car to purchase. This too is very unfortunate as it deters a potential Buyer from wanting to make the trip. Another thing that makes this not a good sign for Chickasha is because these vehicles ARE showing up and selling at alternate meets. :o

#4) What is funny (-at least to me) is how I read on social media and in forum ads about "I wish this car was for sale closer!" or "I hate to make purchases without seeing the item in person!" ...yet evidently that excuse has no merit because this meet seemingly has no longer become a priority for people to attend. From my recollection of this hobby over the past 50+ years, there was a time when hobbyists cleared their calendars to attend Hershey and Chickasha. These two events took priority over ALL other family events. Again, based on the spaces that were filled along with people coming to make purchases, apparently attending this meet was fairly low on their priority list. Again, I cannot help but wonder if any amount of advertising or pleading is going to overcome this.

I yield back for comments on my thoughts.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by BRENT in 10-uh-C » Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:56 pm

tdump wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:59 pm
I have only been once and will be going back in 2025 if I am alive and able to press a gas pedal.
The premeet thing out in the parking lot? Shucks,that is where I was able to take time to talk and meet people,while they were not pressed to deal with someone in the retail setting,they could take a minute and say something in detail about a item or whatever that during "retail" hours they wouldn't have time to do.
If you want something bad enough, be the early bird or miss your worm.

Mack, now worries as that is likely a thing of the past ...unless it happens the evening before in the area Hotel parking lots. The infamous 'Thursday Move-in' is now eliminated ...and Move-In will happen at 7:00AM on Friday morning. Granted a few things will sell between daybreak and 7:00, but I don't think it will deter much. Now the complaining will be that the Vendors had between 7:00 - 10:00 AM to make all the good purchases that the Attendees who were also trying to buy the goodies did not. :o :oops:

It still doesn't change things because after a Buyer has canvased the meet once or twice and all of the goodies are sold, they will load up and be heading home.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by John kuehn » Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:05 pm

So how is the big one “Hershey” doing. I would suppose it’s because of the “ Legendary Status” it’s achieved over the years.
If that’s so why is it successful as it has been? Yes it caters to most all years and models of old cars but still it’s managed to pretty much thrive. So why?

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by BRENT in 10-uh-C » Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:34 pm

John kuehn wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:05 pm
So how is the big one “Hershey” doing. I would suppose it’s because of the “ Legendary Status” it’s achieved over the years.
If that’s so why is it successful as it has been? Yes it caters to most all years and models of old cars but still it’s managed to pretty much thrive. So why?
My opinion is it has survived because the 'frugalness' is not there. Remember, at one time Chickasha also shared the Legendary Status title.

Using a hypothetical scenario, based on my own experiences over the years, the same item that sells easily at Hershey for $50 struggles to bring $35 at Chickasha. Good quality parts and vehicles have always brought top-money at Hershey. Hypothetically if someone from the upper Midwest has a nice brass-era Model-T for sale, the costs to sell their vehicle at Chickasha vs. Hershey are within a few hundred dollars of each other however their vehicle will likely bring several thousands of dollars more selling at Hershey. Which place makes better sense to market that car?? If you are in the market to purchase a nice vehicle, having several like vehicles to choose from make the added premium worthwhile. The same mindset applies to selling parts. And, because the availability and selection is generally there, it attracts Buyers from all regions.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by tdump » Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:15 pm

Well Brent you just sold me on saving for the trip to Oklahoma instead of Hersey. If I can get the same quality of parts there at a better price,then that is motivation to hit I40 and set the cruise control as opposed to going up north where they aint got no sweet tea! :shock:
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by BRENT in 10-uh-C » Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:25 am

tdump wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:15 pm
Well Brent you just sold me on saving for the trip to Oklahoma instead of Hersey. If I can get the same quality of parts there at a better price,then that is motivation to hit I40 and set the cruise control as opposed to going up north where they aint got no sweet tea! :shock:
But Mack, that is not really what I said. Notice where I said "...at one time...". Your keyword is If.

Hypothetically 'If' I was looking for a small drum Ruckstell to purchase at the 2023 Chickasha, -and that was the main thing I was attending to purchase, there wasn't one there for sale. If there had been one there I would likely had spent $1,000 whereas at Hershey I would have likely spent $1,2000. While I/you would have spent more at Hershey, I/you likely would have seen 5-10 different Ruckstell units for sale that we could have chosen from. So in reality, the costs to attend Chickasha where we came back empty-handed must be added into the next year when we did purchase one. While it is easy to say I bought my unit cheaper at Chickasha, the brutal reality is your Ruckstell unit actually costs upwards of 50% more than what the same unit purchased at Hershey would cost. When comparing to years past, only ½ of the Sellers are attending Chickasha now, so now there is much less merchandise to pick from. THIS is one of the reasons why Chickasha is struggling IMO.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Original Smith » Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:18 pm

Remember when Mike and Suzie were going to shut the meet down several years back/

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by REHelgeson » Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:27 pm

I would think moving the meet to a date where the weather would be better would help. Also adding a tour and other family friendly activities. Maybe a national MTFCA tour and meet.The homecoming in Richmond Indiana seems to do well. I always enjoy the homecoming.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by tdump » Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:26 pm

Well the weather is a factor to consider BUT the schedule it is on now does not interfere with other shows and swaps.Later in the spring or during the summer, it would conflict and perhaps push some folks out that have to decide 1 or the other. just a thought.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by DHort » Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:58 pm

The rental for the grounds is probably a lot cheaper this time of year, but I am sure everyone would rather it was raining and hot, than raining & snowing. Avoid the 2 weeks the National tours are scheduled and you should be OK. Early June is usually open for most T people.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by OilyBill » Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:50 am

I attended Chickasha this year, as I have for the past 15 years or so.
I'm glad I got to see the Don Boulton collection multiple time, the last just before he passed away.
I also used to go to the Ted Davis open house at his factory, but when I called them this year, they said the factory museum had been cleared out, and there was not going to be any open house, except for people that Ted had personally invited to visit his home during Chickasha. So that was that.

I spoke to vendors on Friday, and most of them said they were having an excellent time regarding sales there. One vendor told me he sold about 3 times what he typically sold there. So, although the fields seemed a little sparse, apparently business was good for most sellers.

I was looking for a Holley NH carb, and every time I approached a vendor, I was told they had sold every single NH to someone who was there buying cores for their rebuild business. One vendor told me they had sold 31 NH carbs on the previous day, another told me they had sold 50 of them, and several told me they had sold every Holley NH (varying from 3-4 up to 10-12) the day before, all apparently to the same guy. So I was understandably a little disappointed that I had traveled all that distance to find out all the stuff had sold on the day before the meet actually opened. I never did find a Holley NH to buy there. I am hoping I will find one at Tulare, but we will see.

I will be going back to Chickasha next year as well. I think the rumors that Chickasha was ending were quite damaging to attendance. Many people I knew, when I mentioned I was going to Chickasha over the last few years, were surprised because they thought it was no longer being held. I guess it will take some time for the news to spread more widely.

The weather was actually quite good. The rain cleared out the previous day, and on the Friday, the sun came out and it was very nice. The grounds dried out pretty quickly, and It was even warm in the afternoon.

I think Chickasha is very valuable, not least because you don't have to wade through tons of 57 Chevy and 1967 Pontiac parts. You KNOW that most of the stuff you will see will be for early cars, not just Model T's but other early cars as well. I know one seller who had rough castings for early Cadillacs, and there were several sellers that had other early car parts. There were lots of early magnetos and brass lights and accessories as well.
Also, as previously mentioned, the grounds and facilities are really top notch and beautiful. They even had meeting rooms available. (I attended the Early Ford Registry meeting in one of the meeting rooms at 4 pm on Friday)

I was glad to see the Southwest Chapter of the Overland club also had their usual large and very nice display in the South building.

I also wish vendors would stay longer. By Saturday morning things were pretty thin. I think people should bring more stuff to sell, and plan on staying longer. If you want Chickasha to be a big event again, everyone will have to contribute to making it grow.

In my opinion, the Chickasha Pre-War Swap Meet is still well worth the trip.

And although Ron's BBQ is gone, they have the new "Lady Leg Lamp" to gaze upon.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by ModelTWoods » Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:44 am

BRENT in 10-uh-C wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:25 pm
ModelTWoods wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:50 pm
I agree with Jerry that pre-opening day and hour sales (mainly between vendors) is not fair to retail buyers who drive from afar to only buy and not sell. However, I don't have a solution to the problem. As the saying goes, "Money Talks". Retail buyers have a similar problem, though, if a meet is big and they found out they missed finding the rare part they have been looking for by only hours or minutes because it took so long to cover the meet and find the seller who had what they were looking for when the meet opened, but had already sold it. For some reason, I never remember these problems, being a problem at Pate, Carlisle, or Hershey. maybe I was just lucky. I, do remember, one time at a swap meet in Columbus, Ohio, where I and another buyer wanted the same item and approached the vendor at the same time. The vendor flipped a quarter and I was allowed to call. I won the coin toss. Lucky, again..

Terry, I must disagree about the "not fair" comment. When we are really being honest with ourselves, the 'Retail Buyers' have the same opportunity to purchase items just as any of the Vendors have. They just had to put forth the effort to be there at the same time as the Vendors!! In times past, I have even made arrangements to purchase items ahead of time that were being brought to Chickasha by a vendors to sell. It really boils down to the effort someone was willing to make. Now, to even carry this thought even further, I remember 50+ years ago when my dad would go to the Conroe Swap meet, or Irving, or Decatur, or Pate, (-or you fill in the blank) where vendors would be lining-up in the wee-hours to get into the swap meet to setup, -and there my dad would be along with others making purchases (-and sales) prior to that swap meet ever opening their gates. Also, vendors went to Carlisle and bought merchandise that was sold the following week at Hershey. Buyers also attended Carlisle to often pick there before others saw the items being offered at Hershey. So this is definitely NOT something new, ...nor is it what has killed Chickasha.


As far as Chickasha goes, IMHO, it seemed there was a bunch of 'junque' (which is the kind word for JUNK :lol: ) there this year. Good stuff was selling however there was definitely a shortage of it there. Ask around how many brass-era vehicles were there for sale. Matter of fact, Mark Freimiller brought 2/3rds of all the brass-era vehicles that were in attendance!! :o Not a single Model-A that was for sale was present. On another forum I posted some pictures from 2005 when I came home with a 26' flatbed trailer & a pick-up bed nearly full of treasures I purchased at Chickasha. In 2019 I purchased a semi-full 6x12 trailer load of quality Model-A & T parts, ...and this year I could have easily put everything I purchased inside of a full-size automobile's trunk and still had room for my luggage and a cooler. This is not of Mike & Susi's doing!! The facility there Grady County is the best it has ever been in 30 years.

But, -with the above said, I had a phenomenal swap meet with my purchases and sales however I was willing to purchase quality merchandise at fair market prices. Therein lies the other side of this issue with Chickasha is many of the buyers I experienced were unwilling to pay fair market prices for items. Fair market means a realistic 2023 price. If an item will bring $50 at other places (swap meets or online) yet it is a struggle to get someone to even pay $30 for it at Chickasha, it doesn't take long for a Vendor to realize how they are wasting their valuable time & money attending such a swap meet to vend. And again, this 'frugalness' is not something new that has surfaced for 2023. When commercial vendors quit attending Chickasha because it is no longer a financial value for them to attend, then that proves the issue is real and not just a one year happening or something caused by COVID. Unfortunately, I think the precedence has been set for this meet and that is what has killed it.
Brent, I agree with you that retail buyers have the same opportunity to buy on 'set up' day as other vendors, but 'set up' day, isn't advertised as a swap meet day, so retail buyers who 'aren't in the know', don't know what goes on behind closed doors (or in this case, fences and structure walls). I do not believe that vendors should be prohibited from selling on 'set up' day. That would be hard to enforce. Instead, I would propose that the meet be advertised as a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday meet (assuming it was actually just a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday meet), with Thursday still the 'set up' day, but with retail buyers allowed to make deals just like vendors. No exceptions! No vendors allowed on grounds until the first day of the advertised meet. Now, I know this might create Chaos with vendors trying to get to their spaces and 'set up', but they still manage to do it when just vendors are there buying and selling to each other.
I, also, agree with others who have suggested the meet be held later in the Spring or early Summer. The last year i went to Chickasha, a strong thunderstorm and cool front came through early morning the last day I stayed. After the rain stopped, the temperature which had been short sleeve weather was immediately jacket weather, and when I left the meet, the ditches along the roads on the south side of town were full of hailstones. It looked like snow.
I, also, believe the internet has contributed to kill swap meets (except for Carlisle and Hershey). When I went to Chickasha for the first time, if I remember correctly, there were two meets a year; a Spring and a Fall. Those were the days! Also, back in the 70's and 80's when PATE swap meet was at Cresson, it was a "killer" swap meet! It was so big, It would take a person two full days to see everything. End of Rambling.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by BRENT in 10-uh-C » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:05 am

ModelTWoods wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:44 am

1) Brent, I agree with you that retail buyers have the same opportunity to buy on 'set up' day as other vendors, but 'set up' day, isn't advertised as a swap meet day, so retail buyers who 'aren't in the know', don't know what goes on behind closed doors (or in this case, fences and structure walls). I do not believe that vendors should be prohibited from selling on 'set up' day. That would be hard to enforce. Instead, I would propose that the meet be advertised as a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday meet (assuming it was actually just a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday meet), with Thursday still the 'set up' day, but with retail buyers allowed to make deals just like vendors. No exceptions! No vendors allowed on grounds until the first day of the advertised meet. Now, I know this might create Chaos with vendors trying to get to their spaces and 'set up', but they still manage to do it when just vendors are there buying and selling to each other.

2) I, also, agree with others who have suggested the meet be held later in the Spring or early Summer. The last year i went to Chickasha, a strong thunderstorm and cool front came through early morning the last day I stayed. After the rain stopped, the temperature which had been short sleeve weather was immediately jacket weather, and when I left the meet, the ditches along the roads on the south side of town were full of hailstones. It looked like snow.

3) I, also, believe the internet has contributed to kill swap meets (except for Carlisle and Hershey). When I went to Chickasha for the first time, if I remember correctly, there were two meets a year; a Spring and a Fall. Those were the days! Also, back in the 70's and 80's when PATE swap meet was at Cresson, it was a "killer" swap meet! It was so big, It would take a person two full days to see everything. End of Rambling.

1) Your wishes may have come true since the Thursday set-up has been eliminated for 2024. The difference is now on Friday, all Vendors are allowed into the property at 7:00AM however the Buyers are now allowed in at 10:00AM. So in theory, many of the 'goodie items' may be picked-over solely by Vendors prior to the show opening for the Buyers. Not sure that corrects the complaint that retail buyers get shorted.

2) While discussing this is likely moot at this point, a date change might have worked 10 years ago when the meet was still going strong but is likely not a viable option for now based on many levels. The irony is from 1990 thru about 2015 (-or about 25 years) the dates of Chickasha with all of the varying weather never affected this swap meets from becoming one of the top-5 best swap meets in the world! Now that Vendor and Buyer attendance has dropped significantly, I guess many are thinking that it is because of the weather. Geez guys, based on the success of the first 25 years, are we sure it is actually the time of year or the weather that has caused the demise??

3) I agree, the internet has removed the 'thrill' of attending swap meets. Fortunately, when you scan the classified forum here, or the classifieds on the HCCA website it appears there is still a strong market for good Model-T parts and vehicles.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by George Mills » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:41 am

As one who has done Hershey since the car show was IN the stadium and the flea market was maybe one good long row outside the stadium and the WHOLE thing could be done on a single Saturday even after stopping for breakfast along the way in…the draw for Hershey is probably legendary, the mix of stuff going from junque to really nice (if not real OEM), some of the pricing will get absurd, some of it got realistic about noon on Saturday, some not…but the bottom line has always been implied…if you want something, at the level of finish that you want it…it is and will be there somewhere…you just have to find it! That is why Hershey seems to forever hold mecca status.

I once found a 3 digit serial number Corvette one year…the whole thing was disassembled and in a pile, spent a lot of time on looking at it, decided it was pretty much all there decided to walk on by but for the 14K he wanted, I really would not have gone wrong…sigh. Hershey also has the eye-candy part and that is a fair part of it as you walk around. There are also the bucket finds…where there might be a whole bucket of used Bendix sitting in old motor oil…but they still want 45 bucks each at Hershey! (When the repos started coming in junk…all of a sudden that 45 bucks got cheap!). Stop by the point and condenser man space looking for something odd and fairly unique? He was smart enough to tell you what was close enough to probably work, or take your name and number and call you a month or so later when he came across what you needed. How about Henry the tail-light guy? He was one of the first 6 vendors at Hershey in the beginning. He went on to buy warehouses full of old red lens inventory…but you went to Hershey looking for a specific lens you had a 99% chance he’d have one right there with him, or one back home at his auto parts retail shop. Impulse buying? Hmmm…I once also walked by a complete Mercury body…was chomping on the bit Friday afternoon to get it done...decided if it was there on Saturday at noon we would parlay---it sold before, so it goes. No one will remember him but there was a guy named Austin Mitchell-legend in his time for restored early coil boxes-pull up a chair for an hour or so at his space, guaranteed to catch up with others passing by. Then there was the guy who had two fenders and two splash aprons for a 23-25- totally redone and gorgeous. I had no need for them originally, but they went home with me when I left late on Saturday! Yeah, on the other end there was also the guy where I wanted to buy a split rim for a spare as had one really 'sprung', had pre-arranged a set aside via early email, and when I got there he had it, yet also a complete set of 4…wheels/hubs/drums/decent rubber/held air and it was like a BOGO only pay for 3…get all 4! Wow…until I got them home and found there was like one each by each manufacturer and not really interchangeable…oh well. We live, we learn. :roll:

I think the original intent for Chickasha was pretty much the same. End of winter shake the cobwebs, get out and meet and greet, still time to get ready for spring projects, but now the perception is that anything good is gone/traded in the parking lot before it even starts, what’s inside is mostly $ table stuff (and for the most part apparently, there is no longer demand for what a guy like me might want to spend weeks restoring something to use, folks want plug-n-play), and…its’ not a weekend thing, it’s all done on Friday (some will say 10AM Thursday) and definitely a ghost town by Saturday morning so unless retired, not really the window to ‘shop’.

The above is just a reflection and not really a recommended help John…but I think if you whiteboard it (and others comments) you will see what Chickasha needs…or…invent something unique as ‘the draw’ as apparently the concept of ‘draw’ is what has been apparently missing for the last couple of years?

FWIW, my Stolz Hack body (a gorgeous unique thang just slightly different from the others) now on the ’19 was a late Saturday morning buy at Chickasha back in 2010, Stolz had not sold it even though he brought one every year and had been previously successful, he really did not want to cart it home, fair prices exchanged. It’s now in Florida and getting its old oak ‘patina’ on a built up chassis out of leftovers. You just never know.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by KirkieP » Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:43 pm

The Pulled Pork sandwich sold by the family run concession in the North building was Delicious. The A&E is a great place to eat, the berry cobbler and ice cream was the size of an entrée. The peach cobbler at the Cotton Patch was very tasty and the waitress really treated everyone well. There are 3 new hotels since I started attending in 06.
There was a rural machinist with his wife and 5 young children who stopped by our spaces to chat. I spent most of my time Friday and Saturday sitting behind our tables, but I did get a chance to visit with some old Friends and make new ones.
It is MY understanding the North building will be consolidated into the west section next year.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:26 pm

Geez guys, based on the success of the first 25 years, are we sure it is actually the time of year or the weather that has caused the demise?

Nope. There may be several reasons, but that isn't one of them. I think a big one is the convenience of the internet. The decline is not confined to this one meet. Pate was a classic, but when they moved it to TMS the magic was gone. A couple of years ago I quit Iola because there was so little of anything I cared about and the price of admission to find so little was higher every year. The story on Hershey used to be that you had to wait for somebody to die to get a space. Now you see more empty spaces every year. It's still huge, and well worth the trip, but the shrinkage is real.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:38 pm

Old cars and parts are still suffering attrition, and some people are still scrapping good stuff. In some places, it's getting difficult to have a second or third car on your property unless it is licensed and insured ... and more and more people rent, or live in apartments.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by tdump » Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:01 pm

Sounds like the guy buying carb cores is really trying to corner the market on them. Good thing alot of us have our own stashes!
My thing with chickasha when I went, I would ask a price from a vendor,and 1 of those foreigners would hand the money over right in my face ,before I could get my bill fold out,they were rude in that aspect,you don't jump in front of someone like that,.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Tim Rogers » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:30 pm

..."and 1 of those foreigners"...

Please explain this statement.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by FreighTer Jim » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:49 pm

Tim Rogers wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:30 pm
..."and 1 of those foreigners"...

Please explain this statement.


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Anyone not living in the
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Dan Hatch » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:50 pm

Few years ago the British would come to Chickasha, get a container fill it up with cars and parts. Then have it shipped across the pond. They would buy everything in site.

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Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by FreighTer Jim » Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:58 pm

Dan Hatch wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:50 pm
Few years ago the British would come to Chickasha, get a container fill it up with cars and parts. Then have it shipped across the pond. They would buy everything in site.
If you look at the image in my post
“ The British “ are represented
by Mick Jagger …


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by ModelTWoods » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:55 pm

tdump wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:01 pm
Sounds like the guy buying carb cores is really trying to corner the market on them. Good thing alot of us have our own stashes!
My thing with chickasha when I went, I would ask a price from a vendor,and 1 of those foreigners would hand the money over right in my face ,before I could get my bill fold out,they were rude in that aspect,you don't jump in front of someone like that,.
OUCH ! What a smack in the face. Watching this forum is not limited to Americans. There are T owners all over the world, and this is the favorite of most.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by John kuehn » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:16 pm

Yes folks. There are folks who come over to buy loads of T parts from time to time since we have the most available T parts besides other classic or antique cars that people want the world over.

It’s no big surprise to notice that. And even some who come over aren’t old car enthusiasts BUT they like all the land we have and buy it up. What say ye?


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by ModelTWoods » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:57 pm

To Answer The Original Question, Only Vendors and the Buyers can revitalize Chickasha, and if this year's attendance was as poor as has been reported, Vendors and the Buyers had better start showing up as soon as next year ! Most who go annually will remember that it was only a few years ago that the Erslands announced that they were cancelling the event due to a variety of reasons, one of which was attendance. They changed their mind after hearing an out roar of dissatisfaction from the auto hobby crowd. No one wants to run an event that loses money and costs the promoters time and money, so if they made that decision, once, they can certainly do it again/

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by FreighTer Jim » Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:05 am

ModelTWoods wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:57 pm
To Answer The Original Question, Only Vendors and the Buyers can revitalize Chickasha, and if this year's attendance was as poor as has been reported, Vendors and the Buyers had better start showing up as soon as next year !
And That Sums It Uo Nicely …

This thread has run its course …

If you want to revisit the past - go watch a movie …


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by tdump » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:34 am

As I get older I am tending to say things as I feel them,but didn't mean to be mean ,it was shocking to me and I have never forgotten it.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:03 am

Some excellent suggestions here. None of which will be enacted sadly. Move inside, change the date, possibly controlling pre opening sales, food, etc.
Apparently they're still at the it's gotta get worse before it gets better stage.
Forget everything you thought you knew.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by tdump » Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:01 am

Um, well 1 change we need, If we could get Scotty to BEAM us there instead of all that driving! :lol:
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Dan Hatch » Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:11 am

Mack: If you haven’t been to Luray, you need to go. Should not be that far for you. Parts coming there for most part have not seen daylight in years. The VFW has a nice place for a meeting.
All you guys need to give it a try. The day after Luray there is another Pre War meetin PA . About 150 miles away.
That is two on the same weekend.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Retro54 » Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:52 pm

Dan Hatch wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:11 am
Mack: If you haven’t been to Luray, you need to go. Should not be that far for you. Parts coming there for most part have not seen daylight in years. The VFW has a nice place for a meeting.
All you guys need to give it a try. The day after Luray there is another Pre War meetin PA . About 150 miles away.
That is two on the same weekend.
Agreed Dan! The swap meet and car show that is part of the HCCA's BBC car tour is a great even where you have the opportunity to see a great cross section of brass cars along with some nice Ford examples. Sometimes there's even a model K or two...


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by speedytinc » Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:18 pm

Charlie B in N.J. wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:03 am
Some excellent suggestions here. None of which will be enacted sadly. Move inside, change the date, possibly controlling pre opening sales, food, etc.
Apparently they're still at the it's gotta get worse before it gets better stage.
The last time I responded to this type question, 2 guys with hoods & a rope suggested I get another hobbie. "Watch on old movie"?
Might be too late for Chickasha. Widely published TRUTH about the swapmeet being Thursday & Friday would help some.

The swapmeet game has morphed into a game for retired old men. (psst, they are dying off faster) You want younger folks involved(under 65?), but its hard to participate if you have a JOB.
I have watched the problem grow as start times got earlier in the week with Bakersfield. I have driven to Chickasha twice. Learned A swap space purchase was REQUIRED. The size, pre sales, weather, cost, shrinking vendors & time are off-putting.

Bakersfield was a sat/sunday meet.(when I started attending) Setup Sat am. times have creeped to a thursday start. You needed to buy a space & be there on setup day for any kind if chance. Many spaces were/are full with non sellers.
Watching the change, I notice meets only go 1.5 - 2 days. Hershey being a notable exception by being historically fluid over the week.
So thursday start, friday 1/2 day a good 1/2 of the spaces become empty.
Day changes have knocked me out of selling. I used to have the wife mind the store as I shopped. She has a real job & cant make it.
Still come as a buyer, but one less seller in the mix. A great meet, wouldnt miss it.
I was hoping for a date reset with the 2 venue changes. Nope.

We'll see what happens. As in the past, I predict friday 1/2 day. & done.
How much buying will happen WENDSDAY ?
How much pre buying on THURSDAY before entry?
How small is it FRIDAY afternoon?
Ghost town on SATURDAY mourning?

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Will_Vanderburg » Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:19 pm

Pre opening sales is like going to an auction or yard sale that states “no early birds” and finding out the item you were interested in was sold two hours ago before it ever hit a table.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by John kuehn » Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:00 pm

Leave it to the snatchers and grabbers to spoil everything.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Erik Johnson » Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:05 pm

John kuehn wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:00 pm
Leave it to the snatchers and grabbers to spoil everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uejLPYbIXa4


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by ModelTWoods » Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:45 pm

I, once, heard or read that the reason why Chickasha is such a 'ghost town' on Sunday, is because if the buyers don't come; the vendors won't stay. Well, you can turn that around. if the vendors don't stay; the buyers won't come. A reason floated why vendors left early, was not just because the buyers weren't there, but because many came from long distances and had to be home Sunday night or Monday morning for work. Its been decades since I've been to Hershey or Carlisle, but its odd that I never experienced that problem at those meets.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by tdump » Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:06 am

I have been to Luray twice.Enjoyed it,I will have to skip this year as economic conditions won't allow it.
I didn't intend to "smack anyone in the face" Sorry about that, this getting old, and not being in the best of shape,puts me in a bad mood sometimes.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by BRENT in 10-uh-C » Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:44 am

ModelTWoods wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:45 pm
I, once, heard or read that the reason why Chickasha is such a 'ghost town' on Sunday, is because if the buyers don't come; the vendors won't stay. Well, you can turn that around. if the vendors don't stay; the buyers won't come. A reason floated why vendors left early, was not just because the buyers weren't there, but because many came from long distances and had to be home Sunday night or Monday morning for work. Its been decades since I've been to Hershey or Carlisle, but its odd that I never experienced that problem at those meets.
Terry, the huge difference between Hershey/Carlisle/etal as compared to Chickasha is the physical size. This year at Chickasha, a person could easily walk each of the buildings and the spaces outside to do a quick look in about 2 hours. The weather outside made the picking even more undesirable. So while everyone can point fingers at Buyer/Seller participation, the brutal facts are that after the average swap meet attendee has canvassed the entire area 2 or 3 times, they are finished and ready to do something else (-like go home!!). Their time is more valuable than standing around on 'hopes' of a late arrival from a new vendor might happen. I know my time is. So after I had canvassed the trailers in the line-up, then recanvassed the meet about 3 complete times, by noon on Friday I had purchased everything that was of a value to me.

One other point about lack of Buyers participation. In this economic times, most hobbyists do not have a 'thick wallet' to purchase everything they need. Let's say that if a Buyer shows up with $2,000 to spend and finds a set of restored lamps for $1,500, a complete DB front axle assy for $200.00, and maybe a new gas tank for $240, then theoretically by noon on Friday he has spent all of his money. So he heads home thinking to himself it has been a good meet. If that same thing applies to ½ of the other attending Buyers who have spent all their money too, then this adversely affects Sellers who are sitting in their spaces no longer selling items on Friday afternoon and all day Saturday. So when those Sellers look around and realize that ½ of the crowd has left to go home, what are they supposed to think/do?


speedytinc wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:18 pm
The swapmeet game has morphed into a game for retired old men. (psst, they are dying off faster) You want younger folks involved(under 65?), but its hard to participate if you have a JOB.

I have watched the problem grow as start times got earlier in the week with Bakersfield. I have driven to Chickasha twice. Learned A swap space purchase was REQUIRED. The size, pre sales, weather, cost, shrinking vendors & time are off-putting.

We'll see what happens. As in the past, I predict friday 1/2 day. & done.
How much buying will happen WENDSDAY ?
How much pre buying on THURSDAY before entry?
How small is it FRIDAY afternoon?
Ghost town on SATURDAY mourning?
Interesting comment about younger folks involvement, however for those of us that were there at Chickasha 2023 will attest that there were quite a few young people (20s-40s) out in the swap meet picking & buying. I would guess most of them had jobs. My countering thoughts come from my involvement in this hobby for nearly 60 years and the observations I have seen over the years. Face it, this has always been an old man's hobby that when these old men get really old and then 'age-out', a younger generation of hobbyist purchases the "old man's" vehicle and they participate with it until they themselves 'age-out' causing their vehicle to go thru the same process of finding a new 'younger owner' again. Ironically, there never seems to be a shortage of buyers for good Model-Ts that are for sale. Definitely was a shortage of Model-Ts for sale at 2023 Chickasha!!

Not sure about your comment about purchasing a space at Chickasha was REQUIRED. For many years I attended Chickasha yet never purchased a swap meet space. Below are some pix of what I purchased at Chickasha in 2005, -and I did not have a vending space. When I arrived, my truck & trailer were empty and parked across the street. I loaded by either shuttling across the street -or pulled inside to load in the evenings.

I'd say your prediction about next year is close, ...but since Move-In time has been moved to Friday only now, I would think that some "pre-buying" will now happen in the hotel parking lots on Thursday evening as Vendors arrive to town, ...and most other pre-buying will happen in the entry line prior to 7:00AM on Friday as Vendors are waiting to get in. The guys that are serious about this will find a way to still be the first to pick. Again, this has been going on for years here and at other swap meets.


John kuehn wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:00 pm
Leave it to the snatchers and grabbers to spoil everything.
John, are you implying this spoiling is like a Black Friday where a mob enters the store rudely grabbing the merchandise?? It really is not like that at Chickasha from what I have experienced.


Chickasha 2005 01.jpg
Chickasha 2005 02.jpg
Chickasha 2005 04.jpg
Chickasha 2005 06.jpg


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by ModelTWoods » Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:26 pm

BRENT in 10-uh-C wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:44 am
ModelTWoods wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:45 pm
I, once, heard or read that the reason why Chickasha is such a 'ghost town' on Sunday, is because if the buyers don't come; the vendors won't stay. Well, you can turn that around. if the vendors don't stay; the buyers won't come. A reason floated why vendors left early, was not just because the buyers weren't there, but because many came from long distances and had to be home Sunday night or Monday morning for work. Its been decades since I've been to Hershey or Carlisle, but its odd that I never experienced that problem at those meets.
Terry, the huge difference between Hershey/Carlisle/etal as compared to Chickasha is the physical size. This year at Chickasha, a person could easily walk each of the buildings and the spaces outside to do a quick look in about 2 hours. The weather outside made the picking even more undesirable. So while everyone can point fingers at Buyer/Seller participation, the brutal facts are that after the average swap meet attendee has canvassed the entire area 2 or 3 times, they are finished and ready to do something else (-like go home!!). Their time is more valuable than standing around on 'hopes' of a late arrival from a new vendor might happen. I know my time is. So after I had canvassed the trailers in the line-up, then recanvassed the meet about 3 complete times, by noon on Friday I had purchased everything that was of a value to me.

One other point about lack of Buyers participation. In this economic times, most hobbyists do not have a 'thick wallet' to purchase everything they need. Let's say that if a Buyer shows up with $2,000 to spend and finds a set of restored lamps for $1,500, a complete DB front axle assy for $200.00, and maybe a new gas tank for $240, then theoretically by noon on Friday he has spent all of his money. So he heads home thinking to himself it has been a good meet. If that same thing applies to ½ of the other attending Buyers who have spent all their money too, then this adversely affects Sellers who are sitting in their spaces no longer selling items on Friday afternoon and all day Saturday. So when those Sellers look around and realize that ½ of the crowd has left to go home, what are they supposed to think/do?

Brent, I do agree with you that Chickasha, even in the best of years, is/was no comparison to Hershey/Carlisle in any year. Perhaps a better comparison would have been to the old PATE swap meet at Cresson, TX, back in the seventies. I'll guaranty you it couldn't have been covered in less than a day and if you stopped at every space, add another day to that.

speedytinc wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:18 pm
The swapmeet game has morphed into a game for retired old men. (psst, they are dying off faster) You want younger folks involved(under 65?), but its hard to participate if you have a JOB.

I have watched the problem grow as start times got earlier in the week with Bakersfield. I have driven to Chickasha twice. Learned A swap space purchase was REQUIRED. The size, pre sales, weather, cost, shrinking vendors & time are off-putting.

We'll see what happens. As in the past, I predict friday 1/2 day. & done.
How much buying will happen WENDSDAY ?
How much pre buying on THURSDAY before entry?
How small is it FRIDAY afternoon?
Ghost town on SATURDAY mourning?
Interesting comment about younger folks involvement, however for those of us that were there at Chickasha 2023 will attest that there were quite a few young people (20s-40s) out in the swap meet picking & buying. I would guess most of them had jobs. My countering thoughts come from my involvement in this hobby for nearly 60 years and the observations I have seen over the years. Face it, this has always been an old man's hobby that when these old men get really old and then 'age-out', a younger generation of hobbyist purchases the "old man's" vehicle and they participate with it until they themselves 'age-out' causing their vehicle to go thru the same process of finding a new 'younger owner' again. Ironically, there never seems to be a shortage of buyers for good Model-Ts that are for sale. Definitely was a shortage of Model-Ts for sale at 2023 Chickasha!!

Not sure about your comment about purchasing a space at Chickasha was REQUIRED. For many years I attended Chickasha yet never purchased a swap meet space. Below are some pix of what I purchased at Chickasha in 2005, -and I did not have a vending space. When I arrived, my truck & trailer were empty and parked across the street. I loaded by either shuttling across the street -or pulled inside to load in the evenings.

I'd say your prediction about next year is close, ...but since Move-In time has been moved to Friday only now, I would think that some "pre-buying" will now happen in the hotel parking lots on Thursday evening as Vendors arrive to town, ...and most other pre-buying will happen in the entry line prior to 7:00AM on Friday as Vendors are waiting to get in. The guys that are serious about this will find a way to still be the first to pick. Again, this has been going on for years here and at other swap meets.


John kuehn wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:00 pm
Leave it to the snatchers and grabbers to spoil everything.
John, are you implying this spoiling is like a Black Friday where a mob enters the store rudely grabbing the merchandise?? It really is not like that at Chickasha from what I have experienced.



Chickasha 2005 01.jpg

Chickasha 2005 02.jpg

Chickasha 2005 04.jpg

Chickasha 2005 06.jpg

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:33 pm

One little correction: I don't think the meet has ever ended on Sunday, at least since I started going many years ago.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Dan Hatch » Wed Mar 29, 2023 3:24 pm

As far as early swapping in line for let in. I don’t remember it going on too much at Hershey. When I was on the White field I don’t think I ever saw it. We could only line up the morning of and everyone was scared of not getting in when they let us in.
Same now on Chocolate, park so close can’t open up trailers.
We will see at Luray in about a month. Load in is on Thursday, if I remember correctly.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Gene_French » Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:48 am

Brother John:
i have been attending the spring meet at Chickasha since it's beginning and have always enjoyed the event ... regarding any means of "revitalizing " the event , i don't know the answer ... it seems that the quantity and quality and range of parts and project or restored vehicles have declined ... i mostly see used parts that we all have in bulk ... there are a few gems to be found , but mostly the same items that we all have way too many of ... i did miss you and the Temple's , but did visit with many friends ... i will be back next year and will stay till early afternoon on Saturday ... always an optimist ...Gene French

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by rnwilliams » Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:51 pm

Let's face it. We don't spend $500.00 in fuel and $250.00 in hotel bills plus food to save $10.00 on a part. We go for the thrill of the hunt and to meet and socialize with friends, old and new, after a long winters nap. I love to go look through the old parts tables and trailers hopping to find something I am missing for a project. Another thing I like to do is to look at old cars (mostly Model T's myself). What I think would help is the addition of a car show of pre-war vehicles. Not a car show to be judged, just a car show for people to be able to look at other people's cars. That's one of my favorite things about a tour is to look at all the cars. I enjoy looking at cars as much as I enjoy looking at other people's junk parts. There is plenty of room there and I think It would draw a crowd to see the cars, locals and visitors alike. I for one would load up a car that I don't usually tour in and bring it to Chickasha to be seen by others. I also think this is the best way to promote the Model T Hobbie. There is no better way to tell people about the Model T than to be standing there with your car and tell them about it while they are looking. I know others have cars they would show. Don't keep doing the same thing a expect different results.
And that's my 2 cents.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by OilyBill » Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:22 pm

RNWilliams, you are SPOT ON with your suggestions! I don't know why they don't have a "car-show" section of the grounds set aside for display of pre-war vehicles. That is a REALLY GOOD idea.

There WAS a meeting of the Early Ford group, which I attended, and I would like to see some OTHER club meetings there as well. The Model T club should have had a meeting there. I know the Overland Club did have a meeting, but I could not find out where it was being held until after it was over.
(I had signed up with the National WOKR club in January, but did not get anything until the day I got back from Chicasha, to find the latest edition of the club magazine in my mailbox, so no way to attend this year. I wish some other groups would have meetings there, even if it is only briefly, to socialize and share some donuts and coffee.

Maybe those meetings could be listed on the info sheet that is sent out with the Chickasha Swap Meet info as well! I don't know how much extra work the Erslands want to add to what they are already doing in connection with the Chicasha Pre-War Swap Meet.

I have not bought a space for a couple of years now. But I am committing to buying a space for next year, no matter what, and will commit to staying
at least through Saturday noon as well. I hope others will follow suit.

Would any of the vendors interested in Brush Runabouts like to have a meeting during Chickasha? I would sponsor that if there was some interest.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by John kuehn » Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:04 pm

Does promotion have anything to do to do with it? The MTFCA is the largest Model T club with a good reach.
It has the Homecoming which is a great thing and a good idea. The website moderator does a good job and gets all the credit he deserves. I think it would help also if the upcoming SWAP MEETS were put on a prominent place on the HOME PAGE. They would be one of the first things that get promoted to create interest. The upcoming SWAP MEET for the month should be displayed prominently so you could see it without going through several steps to find it.
And yes I know they get promoted on the forum but the SWAP MEETS are the places you find parts, other T enthusiasts and cars.
It’s just an idea of course but it seems the MTFCA, MTFCI and maybe others leave it up to the local clubs to do the upfront promotion.
Just some ideas like others have posted.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:05 pm

The lack of involvement and interest starts in one place..., your own home. When you do not get your own children or kids on the block into a hobby by making it interesting and teaching..., then you become the problem to not the solution. Sayin..,"it is not their thing" is not an option. My dear ole Dad, 91 years young said it best "I am your father, I do not care what plans you have, I need your help. You will one day as a man understand and Thank Me"! Revitalizing is another term for life support.

I have been a vendor and know grown men make way to many excuses, ie "You know how much it cost me to get here, gas, food, lodging?' Then try to beat you up on a fair deal, not knowing how many parts you collected over the years and now just haul off for scrap metal instead of being insulted. By the way, I am not alone in my findings.

Quit supporting an extra activity sport such as baseball, football, basketball, etc and start getting involved in real world trades in your school system, ie, shop classes. the more you practice at anything the better you will become. Gen. Pursing said it best for the military, "The more you sweat in peace, the less you will bleed in war". Lack of reading in research is another downsizing, because you go thru clutter in finding the answers which in turn increases knowledge by other enlightenments.

Just an observation in the social dynamics of where it started going downhill.

Hank


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by VinTin23 » Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:59 am

I think it goes without saying that it needs a Rebranding or Market Makeover. The Lack of Sponsorship or Club backing is troubling. A Successful swap is an event, a festival fun for all. I attend or set up at 6-8 swaps a year, this is my 4th consecutive year at Chickasaw. I plan to set up next year and have reservations already set.

A a minimum, they need to be more inclusive, open it up to the Flathead Era, everything pre-1954. Need to Promote a Car Corral. A Post 1954 Swap area etc

Luray is still a Niche swap, similar in size, but far more inclusive and seems to have much better sponsorship and advertising.
FB3E537B-FBB1-44BF-A839-04439415C72A.jpeg


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Upholstery Mike » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:49 am

I have been shocked how Chickasha is shrinking from vendors to swappers. Every year, I am very busy (often with a line of people) and I sell almost everything I bring. I also find all sorts of hard to find items for myself and customers. I also come back with a stack of orders. I couldn't be happier with the business that comes from that swap meet. My only wish is that it would grow back to the size it was back when I first started attending it.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by FreighTer Jim » Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:50 am

VinTin23 wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:59 am
I think it goes without saying that it needs a Rebranding or Market Makeover. The Lack of Sponsorship or Club backing is troubling. A Successful swap is an event, a festival fun for all.
Bakersfield Swap Died because the organizers decided
it was time to kill it.

No Public Swap Meet should owe it’s continuation
to a car club or other organization that can arbitrarily
decide to kill it ….

The Success Or Lack Thereof Of Any Endeavor
lies with the active participants.

Continue showing up to be with The Family
every year and Chickasha Swap Meet will endure.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by speedytinc » Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:20 pm

Correction.
Bakersfield "died" because local government bureaucrats got greedy. They priced it to oblivion.
It hasnt died, it just had to be moved to another venue.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by FreighTer Jim » Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:01 pm

speedytinc wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:20 pm
Correction.
Bakersfield "died" because local government bureaucrats got greedy. They priced it to oblivion.
It hasnt died, it just had to be moved to another venue.
COVID necessitated the temporary cancellation
of The Bakersfield Swap Meet when the Fairgrounds
were re-purposed for emergency use,

The Bakersfield Swap Meet could still have
taken place when the normal Fairgrounds
schedule was restored.

I picked up this Model T in Bakersfield, CA
after the Bakersfield Swap Meet was
cancelled on my way to the
2021 Chickasha Swap Meet.

This is the video I took at pick up:

@ https://youtu.be/LzBEW8iazX0

After I took this video …

The guy in the driver seat of the Model T
told me he was one of the organizers from
HCCA that worked every year on the
Bakersfield Swap Meet.

IMG_5252.jpeg


They decided - as a group - it was time
to kill the Bakersfield Swap Meet.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by speedytinc » Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:16 pm

This is what I heard. BF being my favorite meet each year, I inquired for the why's. Maybe Bill B. could shed more light on the matter.
This is the reason for the new venue to Tulare. Right? Otherwise the meet would have stayed put.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by VinTin23 » Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:25 am

Bakersfield, Tulare, Long Beach, it doesn’t matter. They have the right formula and it works.

Lots of good points in this thread, but unless they act on them, we have a self fulfilling prophecy. The early selling and dates are a problem. Advertised as a Friday/Saturday meet, but it’s actually a Thursday evening and Friday Morning meet. This was the 3rd year in a row I saw large trailers full of parts show up on Saturday and promptly turn around and leave. You don’t think the reverse rule of 7 applies here?

Bottom line, need to open it up to a larger audience, at least pre-54 Flathead era. Get some active club involvement, need some aggressive, visible MTFCA & MAFCA involvement. Invite the Early V8 Club, The VCCA, The MARCA. Food trucks, Demonstrations etc.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by John kuehn » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:48 am

What’s happened over time is the early selling before the meet actually starts can’t be good since it’s not as big as it use to be anyway. It’s got to be a tradition to show up early and beat the supposed crowd that’s coming when the starting times that have been advertised start.

People have figured this out and lots of the good parts get sold the evening before. I didn’t go last year but it was happening the earlier years that I attended. By the second day vendors were leaving as the folks were coming in the second day. It probably happens at other meets but when the meet is small to begin with it can’t help. It’s time to rethink how it’s done and a rebranding may help.

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Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by FreighTer Jim » Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:31 am

You cannot - nor should you attempt to - regulate
vendor to vendor early sales or vendors buying
from average guys in the line waiting to set up.

It is part of the swap meet tradition.

Most folks do not realize the hard cost(s)
incurred in hosting a swap meet - they also
do not express gratitude and respect towards
those that do the actual work - who often
are volunteers.

I spent three days in the Fall of 2021
with unrestricted access at the
Tulare International AG Center to interview
the local volunteers that made the 2021
Spring & Fall Swap Meets a success - thanks
to Jim Holguin of Visalia, California who created
the event from nothing and fought the AG Center
BOD to convince them an automotive swap
meet would be an economic success.

I drove across the country at my expense
to provide social media coverage for both
the 2021 Spring and Fall Tulare AG Center
Swap Meets - I saw the potential under the
leadership of Jim Holguin for great things …

The primary increasing challenge is for
the future of all automotive swap meets:

Where to host the event ?

If you rely on state - county - municipal
faculties then be prepared for cancellation
when those facilities are utilized for the
greater public need in times of emergency.

Private hosting venues are hard to come
by that can accommodate the needs of
vendors to stay with their goods and camp
at their space - if you are in a city there is
the tax department that wants their vendor
revenue - then there is the cost of insurance.

A lot to think about ….


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by BobD » Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:49 am

I want to point out that there are more than one "Chickasha Swap Meet" per year. In 2023 there will be two more. One in May and another in October. The March event is Pre-War specific.
Screen Shot 2023-04-12 at 7.40.42 AM.png
Screen Shot 2023-04-12 at 7.41.33 AM.png


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by John kuehn » Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:54 am

Yes. They have more than just the Pre war. It might be a good time to see what success the other meets have. That would be a measure to see what’s going on as far as promotion and how those meets are handled.
If they are pretty successful and have good attendance they are doing something that’s working better than the Pre war.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by BRENT in 10-uh-C » Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:38 am

John kuehn wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:48 am
What’s happened over time is the early selling before the meet actually starts can’t be good since it’s not as big as it use to be anyway. It’s got to be a tradition to show up early and beat the supposed crowd that’s coming when the starting times that have been advertised start.

People have figured this out and lots of the good parts get sold the evening before. I didn’t go last year but it was happening the earlier years that I attended. By the second day vendors were leaving as the folks were coming in the second day. It probably happens at other meets but when the meet is small to begin with it can’t help. It’s time to rethink how it’s done and a rebranding may help.
John, with all due respect please rethink what you are saying. What is the difference in buying the evening before the event opens vs. people listing items on this site telling what they are loading-up to sell at Luray (....with the purpose of forum readers (i.e.: buyers) making purchases before these items actually arrive at the meet?) How about the person that lists items on the classifieds page offering free delivery to Chickasha or Luray??


Also John, you are correct in their other meets attract a different clientele and as a result they do very well. While this is likely unpopular to think of the Pre-War Meet in this light, take a moment to consider this. Even the Ford Model-T had a great run of nearly two decades, however even with an attempt to revitalize it as a 'New Improved' vehicle, the brutal reality was it had outlived its perceived value where the people began looking elsewhere to meet their needs. The good news in there are alternatives to the ailing Chickasha Pre-War Meet.

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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:51 pm

The Chickasha meets are alike only in their location — the Grady County Fairgrounds. I believe the fall meet, which used to be in November, is staged by a local AACA affiitate. It has always been open to postwar and prewar parts and vehicles. When that organization added the May meet, it was in the same format. The prewar meet, which has always been in March, was created by a prewar group (affiliated with HCCA I believe) led by Joe Ersland. Mike and Susie Ersland, Joe's son and daughter-in-law, continue to run the March prewar meet.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by John kuehn » Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:24 pm

We also need to rethink of the people who are driving hundreds of miles to attend when it actually opens only to find it’s been picked over already. It goes both ways in how people think how it should be handled. We’ve seen that in the responses.
With the way people think there are no easy answers how to handle it. I guess it’s like when little kids hunting Easter eggs. The fastest usually get the most. And yes they are regulated by the parents to all start at the same time and the fastest kids get the most. But if there wasn’t some sort of starting time that’s announced it’s each kid for himself. But you have to remember you’re dealing with little kids. And apparently some never grow up even after many years.

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Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by FreighTer Jim » Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:12 pm

Tradition dictates that vendors buy & sell
before the gates open - whether it is in
the set up line waiting for the gates to open
or down the street at a parking lot.

If folks don’t like that - don’t come.


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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by speedytinc » Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:59 pm

FreighTer Jim wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:12 pm
Tradition dictates that vendors buy & sell
before the gates open - whether it is in
the set up line waiting for the gates to open
or down the street at a parking lot.

If folks don’t like that - don’t come.


FJ
Thats the attitude that will omit positive changes & flat out stop the conversation. (again) Status quo.

My experience is primarily the Bakersfield HCCA meet, (same issues)But Oklahoma could work the same.

You cant stop all pre vendor start sales. You can limit them. (if you want to)
What happens @ the motel parking lot or the highway rest stop will be minimal any way.
The first Tulare meet allowed line up an hour before entry. (Thursday am) There was minimal trading & only a small # of vendors were there in line.
Vendors slowly arrived all day.
I still contend a swap meet is no more than 2 days in actuality. (Hershey the exception) By Friday noon half the vendors were done & packing up. Thats when I left also.
Nothing for the public to see on Saturday. To play the game, I come as a vendor. I adapted & do fine.

If you want public, not just vendor participation, I might suggest the following:
Dont allow vendors on the fair grounds for "setup" until Friday morning, say 10 o'clock. Start letting em in @ 11:00. (this minimizes the Sooners)
The meet will run til noonish Saturday.
Bonus: Some working hobbyists can/will come Saturday To sell & buy. Non vendor hobbyists, families, & interested public will have something to see.
This is how Bakersfield WAS.
My observation from watching the changes over the past 35 or so years.


RichJ
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Re: Revitalizing Chickasha Pre-War swap meet

Post by RichJ » Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:20 pm

VinTin23 wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:59 am
I think it goes without saying that it needs a Rebranding or Market Makeover. The Lack of Sponsorship or Club backing is troubling. A Successful swap is an event, a festival fun for all. I attend or set up at 6-8 swaps a year, this is my 4th consecutive year at Chickasaw. I plan to set up next year and have reservations already set.

A a minimum, they need to be more inclusive, open it up to the Flathead Era, everything pre-1954. Need to Promote a Car Corral. A Post 1954 Swap area etc

Luray is still a Niche swap, similar in size, but far more inclusive and seems to have much better sponsorship and advertising.

FB3E537B-FBB1-44BF-A839-04439415C72A.jpeg
My experience is Dennis and Shendow Ts will and do anything within there power to accommodate the vendors and visitors they appreciate the fact some of us drive 1000 miles to support the event.!
With that said , 4 years ago I drove 1500 miles only to get a cold shoulder and insult from Suzie when I inquired about the parking before set up.
I have and will continue to support Luray and Country Roads T&A Events.

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