MTFCA Forum

Anyone have issues with the aluminum timing gears?

Mine is noisy as all get out.

Yep, they are. Horribly noisy. Get a brass one, they're a bit quieter.

TWrenn wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:26 pm

Yep, they are. Horribly noisy. Get a brass one, they're a bit quieter.

How noisy are steel ones? I HAVE one of them.

They all make noise, with the possible exception of a fiber gear.
Your best bet is probably a quality bronze cam gear with a steel crankshaft gear. I'd buy the gears as a set.

Gear lash is critical for quietest operation, and issues with cams and cam bearings, cam and crankshaft end play, and loose main bearings will contribute to noise.

Bronze is the wsy to go.

In the past, the alloy used expanded greatly, so if you didnt set em up loose, they could ruin the front cam bearing. Very noisy cold.
I think the good latest generation are good. I believe one supplier is making from billet 7075. Not to say there are vendors selling a poor quality version.

I would trust Dan McEachern's aluminum gears. I would ask questions first about fit & noise.
I currently use Dan M's bronze gears. Best available IMO.

Original steel are great. IF you have a NOS set. They are fit really close. .002"
Used gears era typically too worn & will be noisy. I had run a set of early gears that had .005 clearance.
No regrets. A bit of noise, but, its a model T & my hearing isnt as young as it used to be.

What is the condition of your crankshaft gear? No gear will run well against a worn crank gear.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:02 pm

What is the condition of your crankshaft gear? No gear will run well against a worn crank gear.

Not sure Jerry. Had the engine rebuilt several years ago and while it runs good it is just so darned noisy.

Eh ?? How's that ?!? You fellers can HEAR yer timing gears ?

(I'm deaf and I've quit worrying !! )

For my part, no issues with a Dan McEachern aliminium cam gear - replaced a "lettuce gear" (fiber that is) five years ago that was headed south.

I'd get a bronze/steel set, especially if running a generator. The generator and generator gear can make noise, too.

I use a very quiet set of 09-18 spur timing gears in my ‘14. Even have a few extra really nice sets I’d sell. But if you’re running a generator, they won’t work. No kidding; I can’t hear them when the ‘14 is running

I have an aluminum gear in my car and it is a bit noisy but not real bad.

A question would be WHY isn’t the original steel gear reproduced. Cost prohibitive? If the steel crank gear why not the steel timing gear???

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:02 pm

I have an aluminum gear in my car and it is a bit noisy but not real bad.

A question would be WHY isn’t the original steel gear reproduced. Cost prohibitive? If the steel crank gear why not the steel timing gear???

Your question is valid. Thats a good question for Dan M.
From a machining stand point, I would much rather carve on softer material than steel.

Timing gear is cast iron.
The neat thing is that it expands @ the same rate as the block, so the clearance can be tight, which = quiet & wears like iron
I understand that Bronze has a small expansion coefficient, so its a best substitute.
Aluminum, depending on the alloy has a larger expansion coefficient.

From what I’ve sort of understood over the years that Aluminum, Bronze is easier to work with. For years the fiber gears were used and sold by the after market folks. So machining seems to be the issue with a cast or steel timing gear?
If new transmission drums can be had and not real cheap but people do buy them. I would think a timing gear can be made about the same cost as a transmission drum. But I’m not a machinist and there may be more to it that I can understand.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:49 pm

Gear lash is critical for quietest operation, and issues with cams and cam bearings, cam and crankshaft end play, and loose main bearings will contribute to noise.

Very true. I'm running a bronze gear with a generator. Had to use an extra gasket under the generator bracket to get an acceptable gear lash.

Guys- if you have an aluminum or bronze timing gear and its making noises, something is wrong. Its an old wives tale that metal gears all make noise. If you ever purchase one of my gears and they make noise, contact me and lets figure out what the problem is. If you buy my gears- both crank and cam (and generator gear) you will have my full support regarding any issues. I would love to sell my timing gears for the same price as a transmission drum but I'm not that smart! We've been making aluminum and bronze cam gears since about 1985 so there are quite a few out there. A quiet gear is not about throwing money at it- its about accurately cut teeth of the proper size. Yes, aluminum machines differently than bronze and both machine differently than steel, but its not rocket science to know how to process different materials.
When installing a set of gears you should ALWAYS check for proper backlash- .004"-.006 is our house standard for both T and A engines- either bronze or aluminum. I get numerous calls regarding insufficient backlash- yes, your engine guy blew it on the cam to crank center distance when lineboring the mains or your bearings are so worn the crank is sitting too high in the block. I try to have undersize gears in stock for these situations.

Hope this helps a bit.

With all the noises a T engine makes I'm imprest that anyone can hear a cam gear noise? I'm thinking something else is going on here. Dans gears
are the only ones I will use and I have a set in stock all the time. If you have that much noise I would check the gear clearance. A whine is to tight
a rattle is to loose. A knock is cam end spacing.
Craig.

They all make noise but check the lash and crank gear
And change to spiral gears
Bronze/ steel best combo

There was a good reason for Ford to change to the slanted teeth timing gears.

The slant provides a constant mesh of the teeth and a much quieter timing gear set.

I have a newly rebuilt motor with an aluminum timing gear and it is annoyingly noisy. The crazy part is it will make a lot of winding racket, then stop for a while and make close to the same later. I thought it was my transmission triple gears at first, newly rebuilt along with the motor, but after investigating the noise the triple gears are tight. Been tempted to trade it out but it is not causing a problem, runs good, so going to leave it.

If you are using a generator, it's possible the noise is the generator drive gear, and it may get louder when the generator is working hard. When the generator is charging at a higher rate, it is harder to turn, and the increased load may affect the sound of the entire gear train.

The gear lash may change slightly when the engine is warmed up as compared to cold. That might affect the gear noise.

It would be really interesting to hear a Model T coming off the assembly line in the 20’s and what they sounded like. I wonder if any audio has survived but even if it did it wouldn’t be accurate. As fast as they were moving off the line I would think if for the most part they sounded alike they were OK. BUT how quiet were they in reality compared to todays engines.

I have been running aluminum gears on my T's and not very noisy. My hearing is quite good. I can hear my wife and son talking 2 rooms away with the doors open. They are about 40 feet away. Sometimes even hear neighbors talking. The next house is about 200' away. I would NOT use a fiber gear especially with a generator. Fiber has a reputation for breaking and leaving you stranded.
Norm