How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Hello all, Still driving Shirley a bunch to the store, church, school. Having a great time. Thanks to all in the past who help fix her.
How do I tell when it is time to change transmission bands? I received my model T two years ago. I have adjusted the brake band twice, the other bands once. The brake band seems to have sufficient material still as far as I can tell. See attachment. How do I know if it or the others need replacement? It is difficult to see the reverse and forward band linings to check their thickness.
-- IV
How do I tell when it is time to change transmission bands? I received my model T two years ago. I have adjusted the brake band twice, the other bands once. The brake band seems to have sufficient material still as far as I can tell. See attachment. How do I know if it or the others need replacement? It is difficult to see the reverse and forward band linings to check their thickness.
-- IV
-
- Posts: 5205
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Ignatio, Usually you run out of adjustment when the bands are getting low. You might consider acting a bit before that time. Just looking at the brake band, I see that the lining stops short of the end of the band. It should be 1/4" or so past the end. Too much pressure on a poorly adjusted band may bend the ears somewhat and cause them to drag on the drum. Metal to metal is not good. Others may have different ideas.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
So purchase 3 bands and a band changing tool?
-
- Posts: 6431
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Ignacio
though they don't cost much, the band tool (strap of metal on a wood handle) can't be used with wood bands and should not be used with kevlar. Only plan to use it if relining with scandanavia. As for the "U" shaped tool. Don't bother in any event.
Best practice overall is to remove the hog's head with Kevlar and a necessity with wood.
And worn or not, as mentioned above, the bands were improperly assembled and are too short at the ends.
though they don't cost much, the band tool (strap of metal on a wood handle) can't be used with wood bands and should not be used with kevlar. Only plan to use it if relining with scandanavia. As for the "U" shaped tool. Don't bother in any event.
Best practice overall is to remove the hog's head with Kevlar and a necessity with wood.
And worn or not, as mentioned above, the bands were improperly assembled and are too short at the ends.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 364
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:03 pm
- First Name: Stephen
- Last Name: Heatherly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 coupe and 23 Runabout
- Location: St. Louis MO
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Ignatio,
Your brake band should be relined as the lining does not stick out past the end of the metal band like it should. I would go ahead and replace all three so that you don't have to deal with it later. The bands can be removed and replaced through the cover with the strap tool. I've done it several times like that and can replace the old bands with a pre-lined set in about 30 minutes, but the first couple of times can be very difficult. I would suggest you pull the hogs head so that all worn pedal cams can be replaced and all oil leaks can be solved while you have it apart. It's really not a big deal and can be done in a few hours if you keep at it.
Stephen
Your brake band should be relined as the lining does not stick out past the end of the metal band like it should. I would go ahead and replace all three so that you don't have to deal with it later. The bands can be removed and replaced through the cover with the strap tool. I've done it several times like that and can replace the old bands with a pre-lined set in about 30 minutes, but the first couple of times can be very difficult. I would suggest you pull the hogs head so that all worn pedal cams can be replaced and all oil leaks can be solved while you have it apart. It's really not a big deal and can be done in a few hours if you keep at it.
Stephen
-
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:22 pm
- First Name: Arthur
- Last Name: Babitz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927ish Roadster Pickup
- Location: Hood River, Oregon
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Ignacio, I was in a similar position last summer, wondering when I would need new bands, until one day I couldn't make it up my driveway. Once the bands are thin they can shred easily. Fortunately I could back up the driveway to get to my garage.
I decided to take the hogshead off since I was using wooden replacement bands. Replacing the hogshead while the engine is still in the car is not an easy job. I got it done, but it took many hours of cursing and a patient friend to work it from the other side of the firewall. I also wound up with a few new leaks because I didn't use enough RTV. Next time I will use a lot more RTV and maybe lift the body a little to make aligning the hogshead easier. If you don't have leaks and plan to use cotton bands you can save a lot of time. On the other hand, I now understand how the transmission fits together and works much better than I did before I pulled the hogshead. It's not always about taking the easiest path.
I decided to take the hogshead off since I was using wooden replacement bands. Replacing the hogshead while the engine is still in the car is not an easy job. I got it done, but it took many hours of cursing and a patient friend to work it from the other side of the firewall. I also wound up with a few new leaks because I didn't use enough RTV. Next time I will use a lot more RTV and maybe lift the body a little to make aligning the hogshead easier. If you don't have leaks and plan to use cotton bands you can save a lot of time. On the other hand, I now understand how the transmission fits together and works much better than I did before I pulled the hogshead. It's not always about taking the easiest path.
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
I understand that Kevlar bands are essentially forever. How long are Scandinavians supposed to last?
-
- Posts: 5205
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands.
Nothing lasts forever in a T. However, the only worn out woven kevlar bands I have seen were chewed up by a cracked transmission drum. Scandinavia bands will last well under the feet of an experienced T driver, but kevlar bands are much more forgiving when novice drivers are learning of the opperational foibles of a model T.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
-
- Posts: 3299
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
IMO, the new Scandinavian linings won't last very long at all. The formula for the additive to bind the cotton fibers and make them heat and oil resistant is the cause. These NEW Scandinavian linings are very dark black, stiff, and are rather thin in relation to the pre-new additive.
Older version on the left is brown, and bit thicker, NEW today's lining, dark, stiff, thinnest.
MY result in using these around 2001 in the 1924 was a huge amount of debris or 'sticky tar' from the linings, filling up the oil screen. To my dismay the brake band lining didn't make it though a Nat'l tour in Virginia, the few hills there took the toll. Linings were less than a year old.
The better is Kevlar, it is the proper thickness, and has no additives to break down. Tough and will last and last. Same Kevlar in the 1924 since, still going and going like the Energizer Bunny
Kevlar compared to new Scandinavian lining showing physical feature
Your choice, but for me the Kevlar is better. Even think a comeback will occur for all those non-demountable bands folks overlook and discard, you can line those with Kevlar and won't have to remove them for a super long time.
Older version on the left is brown, and bit thicker, NEW today's lining, dark, stiff, thinnest.
MY result in using these around 2001 in the 1924 was a huge amount of debris or 'sticky tar' from the linings, filling up the oil screen. To my dismay the brake band lining didn't make it though a Nat'l tour in Virginia, the few hills there took the toll. Linings were less than a year old.
The better is Kevlar, it is the proper thickness, and has no additives to break down. Tough and will last and last. Same Kevlar in the 1924 since, still going and going like the Energizer Bunny
Kevlar compared to new Scandinavian lining showing physical feature
Your choice, but for me the Kevlar is better. Even think a comeback will occur for all those non-demountable bands folks overlook and discard, you can line those with Kevlar and won't have to remove them for a super long time.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
- Posts: 4308
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Tomaso
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
- Location: Longbranch, WA
- MTFCA Number: 14972
- MTFCI Number: 15411
- Board Member Since: 2001
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Dan's top photo above shows later production (CANTEX CORP.) Scandinavia linings - both of them. Original Scandi's have a completely different weave pattern.
-
- Posts: 3299
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Correct
Here is the real deal old time Scandi
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Where are the pedal cams?
-
- Posts: 3299
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Ignacio
The 'cams' are of course on each brake and reverse pedal, forged to the pedal with the shafts replaceable.
The other 'cams' are the pedal supports, these are bolted to the outside and inside the hogshead.
The low pedal or clutch pedal has its 'notch' which is also a cam riveted to the shaft, that 3428 notch is riveted after you remove the old worn one, or when placing a new low/clutch pedal shaft.
Normally the reverse and brake pedals are good, if not, you have to find better pedals with good cams. The supports and notch are made new today, and are very nice reproductions, those are the parts that normally are changed, along with new shafts when you restore and rebuild a hogshead.
Low or Clutch pedal notch which is riveted to the shaft inside the hogshead.
The 'cams' are of course on each brake and reverse pedal, forged to the pedal with the shafts replaceable.
The other 'cams' are the pedal supports, these are bolted to the outside and inside the hogshead.
The low pedal or clutch pedal has its 'notch' which is also a cam riveted to the shaft, that 3428 notch is riveted after you remove the old worn one, or when placing a new low/clutch pedal shaft.
Normally the reverse and brake pedals are good, if not, you have to find better pedals with good cams. The supports and notch are made new today, and are very nice reproductions, those are the parts that normally are changed, along with new shafts when you restore and rebuild a hogshead.
Low or Clutch pedal notch which is riveted to the shaft inside the hogshead.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
How can I tell if my cams and shafts are worn and need replacing? (They probably are) Do I change the pedals out too?
-
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:29 pm
- First Name: Richard
- Last Name: Grzegorowicz
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 T pickup
- Location: Hartland VT
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
NOT NEW TO THE OLD CARS, JUST THE FORD T, MINE IS A 21, IT HAS THE NON REMOVABLE LINK TYPE BANDS THEY LOOK AND SEEM TO WORK FINE, THINKING AHEAD A BIT, SEEMS I HAD THE IDEA THE NEWER TS WITH REMOVABLE LINK BANDS, THE HOGS HEAD HAD A BULGE MAKING IT EASY'R REPLACING THE BANDS. OR IS THAT WISHFULL THINKING.
-
- Posts: 6463
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Jelf
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
- Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
- MTFCA Number: 16175
- MTFCI Number: 14758
- Board Member Since: 2007
- Contact:
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
This is the first time I ever heard of not using the band tool with Kevlar. Why not? What did I do wrong?...the band tool (strap of metal on a wood handle) can't be used with wood bands and should not be used with kevlar.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
If I grab the brake or gear shift pedal with my hand I can move it back and forth with no resistance about an inch or two. Does that mean the cams are worn and need replacing? Do the pedals also need to be replaced?
-
- Posts: 5205
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Ignatio, the brake pedal and the cam on which it works should have little play before the pedal starts ramping up the cam. The first gear pedal is different. There needs to be some pedal travel to be able to disengage the clutch with your foot, without immediately starting to engage low speed.
Reverse is like the brake pedal, little to no play.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Reverse is like the brake pedal, little to no play.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
-
- Posts: 3299
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Does that mean the cams are worn and need replacing? Do the pedals also need to be replaced?
The best way to judge part condition is visual, with the hogshead off, easy to do restoration. If you only want to examine, you can loosen the nuts and washers on the bands, allowing the pedals to be a bit free swinging, then judge the action of the interface between the pedal cams and the supports.
Typically, the low speed notch needs to be in good shape, or else the setting of 'free neutral' is compromised by too much slop in pedal action.
The supports for the brake and reverse are normally worn down, so you need to check condition of the gliding surfaces of the cam.
You can see the wear compared to a new repro support.
Back in the day you could just go to the Ford parts dealer or agency and get new pedals too! Today we have to contend with finding the better used part, so your pedal needs to have appropriate wear to be usable with a new repro support.
Used pedal with used support, note the amount of 'slop' existing before stepping on the pedal to engage the cam action to squeeze the bands.
Same used pedal, but with new repro support, just about a good as you can have without NOS pedals
The best way to judge part condition is visual, with the hogshead off, easy to do restoration. If you only want to examine, you can loosen the nuts and washers on the bands, allowing the pedals to be a bit free swinging, then judge the action of the interface between the pedal cams and the supports.
Typically, the low speed notch needs to be in good shape, or else the setting of 'free neutral' is compromised by too much slop in pedal action.
The supports for the brake and reverse are normally worn down, so you need to check condition of the gliding surfaces of the cam.
You can see the wear compared to a new repro support.
Back in the day you could just go to the Ford parts dealer or agency and get new pedals too! Today we have to contend with finding the better used part, so your pedal needs to have appropriate wear to be usable with a new repro support.
Used pedal with used support, note the amount of 'slop' existing before stepping on the pedal to engage the cam action to squeeze the bands.
Same used pedal, but with new repro support, just about a good as you can have without NOS pedals
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
- Posts: 2345
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
- First Name: Dave
- Last Name: Hanlon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Touring car
- Location: NE Ohio
- MTFCA Number: 50191
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
"When is it time to change bands ?"
When your feet are touching the firewall and you can't stop and have no more adjustment left!!
When your feet are touching the firewall and you can't stop and have no more adjustment left!!
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Therefore Dan, my brake pedal cam is very worn.
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
The shift pedal shaft deflects when I wiggle the pedal. I just found Lang's transmission bushing set. Should I just purchase the bushing set, cams, springs and new bands and go after it? Do shafts normally need to be replaced? I have now begun reading my previously untouched MTFCA 'The Model T Ford Transmission'.
-
- Posts: 5205
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Ignatio, the bushing set goes in the trans gears. It has nothing to do with the pedals and the cover. One thing at a time. To re-bush the transmission means a motor removal and trans teardown.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
I don't see in the MTFCA Transmission book if there is a replaceable bushing for the pedal shafts. Is there? I see o-rings and I see 'oversized' control shafts on Lang's site. I should probably go with 'oversized' if my slow speed pedal shaft is deflecting when I grab it with my hand and move it back and forth?
-
- Posts: 3299
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
I should probably go with 'over sized' if my slow speed pedal shaft is deflecting when I grab it with my hand and move it back and forth?
Wouldn't need oversize IMO. There should be some 'movement' up and down, guess you have to measure and test. Do you have the hogshead off? Have you removed the pedals and shafts to measure?
The brake or reverse or low pedal shafts, new repro , will measure .624-.625"...the oversize is .630" but you will have to ream the pedal and the hogshead boss to fit. If you worry about leakage of oil due to worn boss on the hogshead, then do the O-ring trick, easy.
On this rebuilt with just std. new repro shafts, the fit is OK, can lift up and wiggle the low speed pedal vertically just some, but that is serviceable. The supports and cam action is more important than super snug fit of the shaft into the hogshead IMO. Now the early alum hogshead can be worn much more due to the soft metal, but the iron boss are more resistant to wear IMO, just depends on how worn out or wallowed out are the boss holes in your hogshead!
Wouldn't need oversize IMO. There should be some 'movement' up and down, guess you have to measure and test. Do you have the hogshead off? Have you removed the pedals and shafts to measure?
The brake or reverse or low pedal shafts, new repro , will measure .624-.625"...the oversize is .630" but you will have to ream the pedal and the hogshead boss to fit. If you worry about leakage of oil due to worn boss on the hogshead, then do the O-ring trick, easy.
On this rebuilt with just std. new repro shafts, the fit is OK, can lift up and wiggle the low speed pedal vertically just some, but that is serviceable. The supports and cam action is more important than super snug fit of the shaft into the hogshead IMO. Now the early alum hogshead can be worn much more due to the soft metal, but the iron boss are more resistant to wear IMO, just depends on how worn out or wallowed out are the boss holes in your hogshead!
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
What is the o-ring trick? I see the three o-rings for sale on Lang's and in the transmission book. That's not original?
-
- Posts: 3299
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
O-rings aren't found in the Ford of course
Sealing pedal leaks at the hogshead boss is covered in this earlier post:
https://www.modeltfordclubofamerica.com ... ?f=2&t=266
Sealing pedal leaks at the hogshead boss is covered in this earlier post:
https://www.modeltfordclubofamerica.com ... ?f=2&t=266
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:47 am
- First Name: Kep
- Last Name: Kerensky
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 23 truck, 26 bug
- Location: Northland
- Board Member Since: 2011
- Contact:
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet but low/high pedal does need some movement in the cam or you'll have no neutral.
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
I've inspected it more:
The slow speed connection clevis to the clutch lever has play in it as well as play at the connection to the pedal. Will a new slow speed connection fix/improve this?
How does one chamfer the cams to do the o-ring trick?
The slow speed shaft and notch deflect substantially by rocking the pedal back and forth. How does the slow speed shaft seal without a cam on the outside? What does the slow speech notch notch into, the hogshead case? Do I have to remove the hogshead to change the slow speech notch?
Is the transmission band tool worth getting for installing Kevlar bands? My bands appear to have the removable ears.
The slow speed connection clevis to the clutch lever has play in it as well as play at the connection to the pedal. Will a new slow speed connection fix/improve this?
How does one chamfer the cams to do the o-ring trick?
The slow speed shaft and notch deflect substantially by rocking the pedal back and forth. How does the slow speed shaft seal without a cam on the outside? What does the slow speech notch notch into, the hogshead case? Do I have to remove the hogshead to change the slow speech notch?
Is the transmission band tool worth getting for installing Kevlar bands? My bands appear to have the removable ears.
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Just figured out that there is a clutch pedal support cam on the inside of the hogshead that is replaceable.
-
Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
The surgery has begun! I have all the bands out and the old cotton removed, the Kevlar bands are going on now.
Question 1: With the hogshead on and the bands removed, what tool is used to hold the clutch pedal support bolt head on the inside? This is so I can take the nut off on the outside and replace the clutch pedal support. Is it possible to change the internal clutch pedal support and do the 'o-ring trick' without removing the hogshead?
Question 2: The pedals are worn. I am changing all the cams. Can the wear surfaces of the pedal be built back up again?
Wish me luck!
-- IV
Question 1: With the hogshead on and the bands removed, what tool is used to hold the clutch pedal support bolt head on the inside? This is so I can take the nut off on the outside and replace the clutch pedal support. Is it possible to change the internal clutch pedal support and do the 'o-ring trick' without removing the hogshead?
Question 2: The pedals are worn. I am changing all the cams. Can the wear surfaces of the pedal be built back up again?
Wish me luck!
-- IV
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:51 am
- First Name: Dick
- Last Name: Cruickshank
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 Depot Hack, 1916 Touring
- Location: Angier NC
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Very interesting comments relative to scandinavia, kevlar and wood linings. I agree that the new scandinavia lining is not what it used to be and many go to the kevlar. I once listened to a debate on the use of kevlar and one person whom I respect was very strong on not using kevlar for the brake band as heat could cause the drum to burst. He apparently had that problem (right or wrong) and I decided to use wood, cotton wood. I have used the wood bands for several years in the 1912 hack and adjusted them once soon after installing. Smooth operation, no chatter, and no wear on any of the three bands. Just my 2 cents, Dick C.
-
- Posts: 1045
- Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:06 pm
- First Name: Susanne
- Last Name: Rohner
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Late '15 touring, "Angel".
- Location: Valfabbrica, (central) Italy
- MTFCA Number: 464
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- Board Member Since: 1999
- Contact:
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
Sure you can. Building up worn parts isn't hard, If you're talking the shaft cam(s), build up the surface with a welder and then dress them back down to the original profile. Just know what the profile should be originally and take your time dressing it down to match. EZPeazy, just make sure it's smooth smooth. I remember someone used to sell replacement pedal faces, if that's where the wear is, you cut off the roached out ones, weld the new ones in place, and dress the wekd bead down so it vanishes... paint and reinstall.
-
- Posts: 1518
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
- First Name: Duane
- Last Name: Cooley
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 18 Runabout, 24 Runabout for 20yrs, 25 TT, late Center Door project, open express pickup
- Location: central MN
- MTFCA Number: 32488
- Board Member Since: 2015
Re: How to tell when it is time to change transmission bands?
When replacing a couple linings in the 24 in 15, used a spare drum here to be sure the bands were round in a relaxed state, clamped down on the drum too and would fit nicely on the drums in use.
Drum on the lap and started tweaking the re-lined bands around the drum. Found the bands were very tweaked, re-tweaked them to be quite round and fit nicer on a drum. Perhaps find a similar to your drum size if you don't have a spare, check your re-lined bands, tweak them to round again and be happy. Carefully installing the fresh bands. I used modern cotton linings but have seen photos here of poorly installed Kevlar linings that stood proud, away from the steel band itself in between the rivets. Yikes.
I riveted the ends of the lining first, stuffed the kidney shaped lining down into the band and kept riveting so it was snug on the band.
Susanne has good ideas too. We can!
Keep us posted!
Drum on the lap and started tweaking the re-lined bands around the drum. Found the bands were very tweaked, re-tweaked them to be quite round and fit nicer on a drum. Perhaps find a similar to your drum size if you don't have a spare, check your re-lined bands, tweak them to round again and be happy. Carefully installing the fresh bands. I used modern cotton linings but have seen photos here of poorly installed Kevlar linings that stood proud, away from the steel band itself in between the rivets. Yikes.
I riveted the ends of the lining first, stuffed the kidney shaped lining down into the band and kept riveting so it was snug on the band.
Susanne has good ideas too. We can!
Keep us posted!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated