MTFCA Forum

When the KW Coils were patented in 1914, were any of them made with the size and button locations required to replace the less than reliable Early Coils?

The Early Coils appear difficult to open for repair and in short supply now.

Is anyone selling good Early Coils since R V Anderson had to quit?

There are a few folks that are in the beta mode right now. Hopefully they will decide that they will be able too do just that.

There is nothing wrong with the early KW coils. I have them in both of my 13's and they are extremely reliable, possibly better than the later ones.

Larry, that is not the issue.

Finding good coils for a 1911 Model T is the problem, now that R V Anderson no longer makes them.

A friend has a car that looks like new and he cannot drive it with two coils!

Just FYI, I started making and repairing Kingston coils.

I attached a few photos. Happy to help.

David Woods

Hopefully Jim Golden will contact you .

Jim,
I modified KW type coils to fit and function in a Heinze coil box. I can run either original Heinze coils or my modified coils.

Bob, you are right!

Hopefully, I will contact David Woods, but I still do not have his address, telephone number or Email address.

Perhaps he works for one of these three letter government agencies that we don't talk about.

Keith, the only question is how can you cut the side off a newer coil to make it fit the box?

As the Forum is for information and teaching, how about a tutorial on the meaning, with illustration, of old and new coils.

all you wanted to know about coils...and then some...all documented by Brent Mize on his website, and available courtesy of the authors: https://www.coildoctor.com/model-t-coil

Thanks Scott!

I Email and talk to Brent from time to time, but I missed this information on his website.

His tells me all didn't know and needed to know!

I had planned on calling him with this question.

Jim.... Click on his name , "Woody23" ,from his picture post and send him a private message thru our Forum. I'm sure he will respond with the help you and your friend needs.

Bob, you are 100 % correct and David has been a great help!

I have learned a lot from him.

He will build what I was asking about, new early size coil cases with the new type coils inside.

Jim,
After removing the capacitor, I cut the dovetails 1/4" deeper then cut the ends off.
Keith

Good coil progress Jim. ! .... Would video of first start with new coils be possible in the future ????

Jim.,.,..Any update on David's coil rebuild service?

I have identified three rebuilders of those early 1912 coils.

None of them have any in stock or have been willing to quote me a price or availability date.

I have identified two people that can repair or rebuild them.

I have also been told a transistor has been added to improve their performance.

The original type transistors are no longer available and why one has been needed is still a mystery.

Jim,

Your friend could "cheat" like I did and get a repro Heinze coil box kit and switch from Snyder's that is sized for KW coils to use. I rebuilt some brass top KW coils to go in the box as shown in the picture below. I am very happy that I did that, as our 11 easily starts and runs on mag only, plus I never have to worry about servicing the early Heinze coils. It was easy to build up the box, and much cheaper than getting a ready built one.

In a matter of minutes your friend could unbolt and bolt back in the original box if he ever gets four good coils.

Neal

That is upsetting news Jim..... Suggest you give a few days to re-contact these folks and maybe they'll change their decision and get you and your friend the coils that you do need to work correctly.... Neal W's suggestion is a very practical solution if all else fails !!!!!!

Jim..... Look at the. "Kingston box wiring" post that was started tonight ( Tuesday ). Same coil box that was suggested to help with your friend's coil problems The box resembles a Kingston coil box but inside it is arranged to take the newer KW style Ford ignition coils that were used from 1916 to 1927.

What, pray tell is an "original transistor"?

"What, pray tell is an "original transistor"? "

So this discussion is showing that the Ford Tremble coil was being made smaller.

I guess it makes sense imagine if the original transistor was not downsized?
Imagine the size of the electronic version of the HCCT?

https://www.bell-labs.com/about/awards/ ... sics/#gref

Putting the hobby back another 60 years (c).

That's great George

Jim said that a transistor was added to coils and that the "original transistor" is no longer available. I suspect that he really meant "capacitor".

perhaps you could supply us lessers with a sketch of a FORD coil utilizing a transistor

By my best estimate, most legitimate posts on this Forum start to lose their utility in about 8 posts, and go completely off the rails at about a dozen posts. There exceptions, but this is a good average.

"(scott)..perhaps you could supply us lessers with a sketch of a FORD coil utilizing a transistor"

Should I do that, maybe I will have advanced the hobby 60 years.

Putting the hobby back another 60 years (c).

What I would like to know is if the KW coils were patented in 1914, how come they were used in late 1913?

Ford wanted to progress with that style coil.... Ford had no power to push through papers in the patent office.

I am only about 20 miles from the Library of Congress and visit there from time to time.

I asked a docent a similar question about a product being produced and sold without the benefit of a patent for protection.

He said a person could still be taken to court for stealing a product and collect the loss from the other person stealing the details and putting the item in production if there was proof he stole the details.

I have seen Holly carburetors and other items with Patent Applied for that were produced before a patent was assigned.

J. A Williams applied for the K W Coil patent on 5 March 1913 and the patent was granted on 7 April 1914.

If he was making, advertising and selling the coils before the 5 March date, he could still collect damages if he had sales records and receipts for the required parts that were purchased elsewhere.

after public disclosure, an inventor must file for patent WITHIN 1 year in order to have patent protection. If that application is not made, the knowledge thus in public domain for 1 year and 1 day is free for anyone to use. There is no prohibition to anyone making anything prior to the issuance of the patent. Since no one but the applicant knows what exactly is being patented, anyone hapless enough to come up with the same idea in the same period is free to sell their wares until someone else patents it. Patent enforcement following the issuance of the patent is a subject of its own, with significant costs involved and is where the little guy often gets skunked.

The key to patent application beyond proving you are not infringing upon prior art, is very carefully dated documentation of the idea to support your claim(s). Often times multiple people are independently working on solving the same problem and amazingly will approach the Patent Office at nearly identical times. Documentation of date of first original idea will be key in determining who may move forward with the patent application. The time from application to approval can be a painful and exhausting period as the application is scrutinized and possibly require one or more revisions to its dependent claims and independent claims.

as far as 1913 coils, just because something has not had a patent filed for it does not mean that it cannot be manufactured

application and subsequent enforcement costs can be daunting and not all great ideas are worth perusing. If it is a matter of pride to just say "I have patented "x" and here is the proof, it is sort of like restoring a $100,000 car just to win a trophy...it is much simpler and cheaper to just go order a trophy.

A NY friend told me that RV was having trouble getting transistors.

There was a problem getting the new style capacitors.

That could be the answer to one question!

Hey Jim.... Any progress in getting ignition coils for your friends Kingston coil box ????