MTFCA Forum

Hello T forum. I have a few questions about my Warford 3 speed that I believe is cast iron on my 26 TT. It have the casting number 920-2 I case you wanted to know. Anyways, I have the rear axle jacked up because I hope to get the rear wheels respoked but in the meantime, I’ve been practicing shifting. I know that you’re supposed to double clutch to shift but even with the clutch in, the first driving gear still seems to spin. (Ask me how I know) Is it supposed to do that? I know I have my pedal adjusted to a have a free neutral because I can start the car with the handbrake all the way down and the low pedal pushed halfway in and the tires will not spin. Any tips on driving with a Warford is appreciated as well.

Thanks for the help as I am not trying to grind the gears too much , Jacob Mangold

HI Jacob — I installed what is probably the identical 3-speed iron-case Warford in my '24 Speedster several years ago, and found it very difficult to shift no matter how I clutched (single, double, whatever).

My query to the forum revealed the answer... ignore the clutch pedal entirely.

With a little practice, I was able to upshift smoothly on the Under-Direct and Direct-Over gear changes by matching the engine revs. For downshifting, the Over-Direct shift is easy with a throttle blip in neutral, but the Direct-Under is much tougher to get right because of the big jump in revs (Under is 50% of Direct, whereas Over is just 25% above Direct).

One will still occasionally miss a shift, particularly when shifting down, and this leaves the Warford in neutral. Obviously this means no foot (transmission) brake on a Model T, so you better have accessory brakes installed, or at least ensure your rear drum brakes are in Tip-Top shape.

If you end up in neutral, you can generally get it back into gear by leaving the Ford transmission in high (don't touch the clutch pedal!) and revving the engine up enough to slide the Warford into gear (usually direct).

Hi Jacob,
The late great Wrong Way Howard ( Gengrich) showed me the trick to getting a warford into gear at a dead stop. It's not nuetral It's reverse!!
With the engine running put a little pressure on reverse with the hand brake lever straight up & it will go right in. If heaven forbid you find
yourself rolling backwards in neutral and your brake will not stop you will not be able to get the warford in gear. Hit reverse & pull the
warford into low gear then go directly into low pedal full throttle. It will scare the sh*t out of you but it will go forward or at least get you
into gear so you can stop rolling backwards. Up & down shifting seems to work well by RPM matching as much as double clutching with stock
T clutch. As far as my expiriance goe's. I worked on diesel trucks for 25 years so your results may vary.
Craig.

The Ford clutch will always have some drag. The Ford transmission has no neutral, so it isn't an issue with the Ford, but it is with a Warford.

Keeping the clutch well-adjusted will help, as will using a quality multi-grade oil in the engine such as 5W30 or 10W30.

A low engine idle speed can be helpful.

Using a heavy gear oil in the Warford can also be helpful.

A well-tuned engine with good throttle response is helpful.

I use 85w-140 in the Warford and sae 30 in the motor and transmission. My throttle is pretty snappy. How do you rpm match it? How can you make it shift smoother? What is the complete method to shift without the clutch?

Thanks Again, Jacob Mangold

Jacob,

Let me start by saying, I have never used a Warford transmission. From what I've always heard, they're nearly impossible to shift "on the fly". Not saying that some folks haven't mastered it. But, as others have already mentioned, being that it can be very difficult, and therefore very easy to "miss" a shift, you'll find yourself in neutral, with zero brakes, (unless you have auxiliary brakes), and in a lot of trouble. I would imagine that trying to shift it with the wheels jacked up, or gone altogether, would be even more difficult. I would further imagine, that even if you mastered it under those conditions, it would have little to do with the experience of trying to shift it with 4 wheels on the ground and the truck moving. What's more likely in the situation you're now in, is that you'll be doing the Warford gears no real favors.

I admire your enthusiasm! Keep up the good work!

Using a 10W30 synthetic oil in the engine will reduce clutch drag. In colder weather, 5W20 or 5W30 is a good choice.

A heavier gear oil will add drag to the Warford, which can help with shifting from neutral into a gear.

Gears can be shifted smoothly with no grinding when there is no load on them, and when they are running at the same speed.

It takes some thinking and use of the throttle to match the gear speeds as closely as possible when shifting up or down, or shifting from Warford neutral into any gear.

It's possible to shift up or down through the gears at any reasonable speed without any gear grinding.

A demonstration by a skilled driver would be worth a thousand words. A demonstration, and some practice will get you on your way to being an expert yourself, and will avoid needless grinding of gears and cursing.

The Warford will behave differently when the vehicle is on the ground and moving under its own power.

I also run a 3 speed Warford & agree with Pat - try & find someone that knows how to shift the beast and pay attention.

I have a Chicago aux tranny in my speedster, same issues as shifting a Warford. I added a foot throttle and life became much easier and safer. Steer and throttle with left hand while shifting with the right was not an easy trick for me. Brakes at the wheels are a must as missed shifts can and do happen.

Hi Jacob,
Yes a foot throttle is a big help. I know a guy that has mastered working the throttle with his left hand through the steering wheel & shifting
with his right hand. I don't recomend it but it's fun to watch. Forget shifting without using the clutch till you master sifting with it because it's
hard to get the warford out of gear with a load on it. One thing I have seen people do when shifting a Aux. trans is forgetting that if you push
on the clutch that low is right there also but when the warford is out of gear you don't feel it. This can be a advantage when down shifting but
will be a pain up shifting. Most have not driven a big truck with no synchronizers that you have to match engine RPM with the next gear you
will be in. So when up shifting the engine RPM will be lower in the next gear so you close the throttle place the gear selector at the next gear
hopefully as the engine slowes down it will come to the same speed as the gears and will slip into gear. Double clutching is simular but you
push the clutch and take the trans out of gear them let the clutch out so it spins the trans at the same speed as the engine then push the
clutch in & shift into gear. Here in is the issue with a Model T when double clutching if you hit low you change the speed of the output shaft
and will delete the effert. When down shifting you must increase the engine speed to match the speed it will be at when in the lower gear.
In a big truck there is a clutchbrake that when you push the clutch all the way to the floor it stops the trans input shaft from spinning so you
can put it in gear at a dead stop that is why you tap reverse in a T to stop the trans from turning so you can put the Aux. trans in gear. If you
have the TT on jacks try pulling the hand brake bake just a little to put a little drag on it to simulate road conditions but be carefull not to
burn up the brake!
Craig.

Jacob, I have an old alum Warford in my Torpedo for many years and miles now. I would suggest not using the clutch when the car is moving! For an inexperienced driver it's best to keep things as simple as possible. Your first shifting would be easiest from direct Ford into OD. At speed simply slow up the throttle and move the shifter, First out of gear and then with maybe a Slight hesitation try meshing it into gear. You can sort of feel when the time is right. Also listen you can hear when things are happy as well! Down shifting from OD to Ford direct requires increasing the engine rpm's a bit and then use the same shift / feel / listen technique to know when it's happy to shove it into gear. There most likely is a slight time delay.

From years of shifting with lots of good and bad sounding shifts I can tell you, I don't or wouldn't worry much about a little grinding of the gears. Those gears are tougher than Nails!! Shifting from Ford into Under Drive while moving is by far the hardest and most likely to grind the heck out of the gears. I normally do that shift right at the apron of a driveway so the car is going pretty slow. Shifting up from UD to Ford is much easier.

You can tell you haven't been driving your T enough by the sounds of your shifting the gears!

Do you have a TT? If so the timing would probably be a lot different. Just practice and Aux brakes really are a must if you have any lights and traffic.

Even on a TT you can feel whether the shift is going to be good before you even shift as well. I also tried the little trick you guys have stated. Blipping the throttle a bit seems to help me to shift into every gear. The reverse trick works too. Unfortunately I was not able to simulate load with the brakes because I took them off to reline them.

Thanks for the help, Jacob Mangold

Hi Jacob — We made you this little YouTube video to show how I shift the Warford in my '24 Speedster. It might be helpful.

Something I should have mentioned in the narration Is the importance of having a foot throttle in your T if you're planning to shift the Warford on the fly... otherwise there are just too many tasks to do at one time with only two hands.

I use Penrite "Semi-Fluid Liquid Grease" in the transmission. Thick and gooey but still flowable, it resists leakage and coats everything in the transmission nicely. It's often recommended for vintage motorcycle transmissions and the like.

https://youtu.be/ljnZnV1wI_8

Chris

that was just outstanding and a really terrific thing to do for Jacob (and me!)

Yeah, many thanks Chris ! That video was very helpful to me too. I never could down shift. I start my T with emergency brake applied. Then I have to apply the service brake to engage Warford (usually low). Then, with TT Ruckstell in underdrive, I don’t even use low band to move out. Just shove ‘emer. Brake lever’ forward into Ford high. If not going uphill, I’ll disengage Ruckstell then shift Warford into direct. I can see where it’ll be a little more difficult without a foot accelerator but I’ll decelerate with left hand while upshifting and not use the clutch anymore. Still leery about downshifting but video was a big help.. Thanks !!

Chris,

Thanks for posting the great video!

I have a question, at about 1:20 you made a right turn and pushed a hand brake lever forward with your left hand. Is that connected to your auxiliary brakes?

Ed

Thanks guys, for the kind comments.

Ed, yes, that is the lever for my auxiliary brakes — repro small-drum ACs on the rear wheels and (shhh) hydraulic ‘66 Triumph Spitfire rear drums on the front.

Chris,

I also wanted to say thanks for the video!

Would you mind showing your front brake setup? Thanks!

Shannon, I'm be happy to oblige, but we are setting off for the US in a very few hours so it will have to wait. If you remind me in about 10 days by PM or on this thread, I'll post some photos and info.

Thank you for the video Chris!

Chris,

Enjoy your trip! I’ll set a reminder for myself to contact you later in the month.