MTFCA Forum

I just had my wheels re-spoked my Stutzman. They are beautiful, but now it's time to finish them. What color is correct for 1916? Maybe they were simply painted by Ford, but I'd like to show off my beautiful spokes.
Should I stain them first, then clear coat - or use a tinted clearcoat?

They came from Ford painted black.

If you want to show off the wood, here is what I used on my spokes. Others will have their own favorite products.

As Mark wrote they were painted black. For the improved cars in 1926-27 natural wood spokes was a dealer option. Natural spokes had a clear finish, they were not stained first.

Hard to beat the looks of a nicely painted black wood spoke wheel, in my opinion.

This is a Mystery oil type of thread. I love the look of natural spoked wheels on all post-brass Model Ts. Many others do not like the natural look. I respect your choice no matter which direction you choose.

Early brass era cars had wheels painted body colors. 1909 red touring cars had red wheels, later 1909s and 1910s had dark green wheels, 1911s into early 1913 had blue wheels. During some point in 1913, wheels were pained black regardless of body color, which during 1913 became usually black anyway.
From mid 1913 through most of 1925, all model Ts leaving the factory had black wheels.

Personally, In part due to the fact that I look at so many era photographs, and I like my cars to look like what I have seen in era photographs, I like them painted black.
I often joke about liking them black "as God and Henry intended for them to be!"

However.

For those that want their wheel wood to be finished in a natural look? It isn't totally era-wrong. This subject has been discussed and researched for many decades now. Fifty years ago, at meetings of the local model T club I belonged to, this was discussed at length! Several people that were digging through old era newspapers found and shared local advertisements offering to pretty-up that plain old looking model T. I wish I had copies of them. But copy machines were not common yet and expensive to use if you went somewhere that had one! So I don't have copies of them. But I have seen quite a few of the local newspaper advertisements for this! During the mid 1910s into the late 1920s, a lot of auto dealers and local repair or paint shops for dollar or two would strip off the black paint, and replace it with a natural stain and clear finish.
Another great thing about those earlier days in this hobby? Was talking with so many people that lived those early days of the automobile! Fifty years ago we were able to talk with people that as kids would earn a couple dollars scraping the paint off wheels for a local shop so that they could be refinished in a stain.
The thing was, that in those days fifty to seventy years ago? People were finding original cars in barns and garages that had natural finished wheels. So they knew they were around much earlier. They just did not know whether natural finish was a factory thing or something else? Research and talking with the people that had been there and done that found it out. 1913 through 1925 model t fords all left the factory with black painted wheels! Natural finish was an after-market change.
But it was done, in era. So it was era correct even if it wasn't "factory correct".
So if one wants natural finished wheels? There is the argument to support them.

I decided I wanted the wood look when I replaced the wood wheels in my ‘15 Touring last year. I received the wheels from Stutzman with new hickory wood and sandblasted/primed hubs and rims. I stained the wood with a mixture of golden pecan and red chestnut Minwax Wood Finish Penetrating Stain, then applied 7 coats of Total Boat Gleam 2.0 marine spar varnish. I selected the Total Boat product because it was possible to apply 2 coats per day. I then painted the metal parts with Rust-Oleum Appliance Epoxy. I was happy with the way they turned out.

Funny story- When I finally got my car back on the road last summer after sitting for 15 years, I took it to a car show in Big Bear Lake, California. One guy came up to me and asked how I I was able to get the wheels to look so much like wood. Uh, they are wood. He was amazed that wheels could be made out of wood!

MarkS wrote: ↑

Sun May 21, 2023 5:23 pm

. . . how I I was able to get the wheels to look so much like wood . . .

Aside from the question of originality, I'm not a fan of natural wood finish because the black of the hub and felloe (on demountable rim wheels) just doesn't look "right" to me. It's less of an eyeball scratcher with a wooden felloe. I've often wondered why those who opt for a natural finish don't paint hubs and metal felloes to "match" by employing a "faux finish" ? It's not that hard to do.

I was thinking that when the early Brass T’s were painted the wheels were painted the same color as the body whether black or whatever. Some have painted their cars that way if I’m not mistaken. Maybe I overlooked the information about that.

The varnish needs to be kept up in top shape. My '13 roadster was restored in the early 1950's but the natural finish was not kept up. The wood is still as tight as it left the factory, but it has dried out. When I painted the wheels correctly, I never thought the grain would show up as much as it does. They need to be repainted again someday. I'll need to spend a lot more time on them this time. So much for varnished wheels!

If you can find a concrete example or memory of someone scraping paint off a Ford wheel in the early days, I'd like to add it to my list. So far, all of the Ford wheels I've seen in early photos up to 1925 are painted. A n option for varnished wheels on a Ford pre-1925 would be through five-lug accessory demountables.

hull 433 wrote: ↑

Mon May 22, 2023 8:41 pm

if you can find a concrete example or memory of someone scraping paint off a Ford wheel in the early days, I'd like to add it to my list. So far, all of the Ford wheels I've seen in early photos up to 1925 are painted. I think the only time varnished wheels would be on a Ford pre-1925 would be through five-lug accessory demountables.

Here is one 'early days' statement of 'customizing' the Ford's wheels to standout from the crowd!

And painted wheels provided a nice look too!

"As God and Henry intended..."

Yes, so-called natural wheels became an option in 26-27. But, except for advertising, how many have you seen on actual cars in period photos? Not many. They are primarily a modern fad.

I read somewhere that "natural" wheels were a $15 option. In 1926-27 that was a lot of money. I would guess that it was rarely selected.

from earlier discussion viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18742
appears to be available in 1925

John Codman wrote: ↑

Tue May 23, 2023 9:44 am

I read somewhere that "natural" wheels were a $15 option. In 1926-27 that was a lot of money. I would guess that it was rarely selected.

They were no cost option, in lieu of wire wheels on the closed cars by '27 to spur sales. A set of wood wheels were only $22. The wires were more a set, so dealer swap was made at no labor charge, as the dealer made some on the difference.


For a few bucks more the varnished wheel really set off the plain Ford. The Ford price was lower than a Chev. so why not outfit it with a few accessories, you know, always been the Ford vs Chev owners!!! Started in '26-'27!


As for the other Ts, the cost was held down to help dealers cater to customers who liked the varnished spokes.
And the sport set liked 'em too, nice new touring! Pieces for '27 are shown for the wires as $30 on open cars, so likely the price for varnished wheels was less.

Martin wrote: ↑

Sun May 21, 2023 7:24 am

I just had my wheels re-spoked my Stutzman. They are beautiful, but now it's time to finish them. What color is correct for 1916? Maybe they were simply painted by Ford, but I'd like to show off my beautiful spokes.
Should I stain them first, then clear coat - or use a tinted clearcoat?

To answer what is correct- note "blue" was almost black
from https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#paint1 on paints
Another interesting dip painting operation was the painting of wood wheels. The first coat applied was F-108 Black Wheel Surfacer. This paint was primarily made up of pigment (52-54%), with the oil, gum and metallic dryer representing 12-14% of the paint, and a thinner of mineral spirits which accounted for 32-34% of the paint. Unpainted wheels were mounted horizontally on a vertical spindle above a circular vat partially filled with paint. The vat was raised, immersing the wheel in the paint and then partway lowered. The wheel was then spun at 540 to 720 rpm for about a minute while still within the vat but above the surface level of the paint. After spinning the paint was considered to be dry enough that the wheel could be handled and it was placed in a drying room for the next 24 hours. The subsequent two coats of paint were applied in a similar manner. The second coat was F-159 Black Wheel Color Varnish. This was followed by F-404 Finish Coat on Wheels. F-404 could be described as a nearly clear topcoat varnish. It contained only enough pigment to give it a dark tint. This painting process resulted in wheels that were a deep, gloss black color.
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NOTE: The above does not mention F-109 as the process below includes it and the codes for "Gear Varnish" are different
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So the idea of scraping off paint to make varnished wheels really did exist, wonder how common it was. The suggestion of painting the radiator and headlight shells white is just freakish.

Thanks to all who commented. I've decided to stain and varnish, figuring I can always paint them black later if I get tired of the natural look.

Faux wood finish on Model T wheel hubs would never look right to me. The spokes were actually made of wood, while the hubs never were. I don't think a wooden hub that was of the same dimensions as the regular T hub could ever hold up in service.

For a custom flair that can't be beat, pad your spokes and wrap them in ostrich-grained Naugahyde, green shag carpet, or rattlesnake hide!