MTFCA Forum

I read some years ago to save the rings from the exhaust/intake gaskets. So, I did. But I don't know what to do with them as they...
1) look fragile,
2) only have a lip on one side,
3) lip fits into the head or the manifold but I don't know which way they go (air flow direction?)
Thanks for suggestions.
Vern

Vern, there are several types of manifold gaskets, some have reusable gland rings, yours is not that type.

Okay, here I go again! These fall in the "love em or hate em" category, but I love em. Bit pricey, sure, but at least for me, they WORK well.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/prod ... &cat=41892

I believe those copper gasket rings are likely re-usable indefinitely. The gripe comes when an exhaust manifold is warped. They don't forgive that very well.

Glands with that profile used to be made of a light metal with an asbestos (?) core. They would crush a bit when tightened and would somewhat forgive some mis-alignment. Too bad they're no longer available.

I use the 4th one posted above called "Original" They are inexpensive. you can keep the glands and replace the copper rings. If the manifold is warped so they won't fit, you need to either straighten the manifold or replace it with a new one. That is the only way to keep the manifold from warping, because it tends to drop at the back where most of the heat is concentrated. Over the years it will stretch at the top and the back of the manifold will drop. Eventually it will get offset so much as to be impossible to seal. The flat gaskets will work for a while to seal the leak, but will not keep it from dropping. You could use the glands with the flat gasket which will keep it from bending, but they don't seal quite as well as the copper rings.
Norm

Hi Vern,
I only use the paper gaskets on my speedster between the header flange & engine. I have had issues with them leaking even with the steel
glands. I do use them on the run stand if the manifolds are going to come right off after break-in. The glands are supose to keep the manifold
inline so it dosn't warp. I have not found this to be true in all cases. Test fit the manifolds with just the glands if they don't fit with just a good
bump with the palm of your hand or a soft hammer then the manifold is likely warped and will need to be straightened or replaced. With the
glands in place it can be a juggling act getting them all to go together. The steel & copper backed three hole gaskets work good but check to
make sure the glands fit in the holes ( found some don't ) The steel glands & copper rings seem to always work.

The claim is made that the solid copper upset gaskets keep the manifold inline. I would like to know if people have found this to be true.
Craig.

Why don’t you combine what Craig and Steve stated. Use the paper gasket with the high temperature RTV silicon.
I always get myself in trouble when I am thinking.

A model T exhaust manifold MUST be fitted with gland rings if it is to stay straight, and these need to be far more robust than the slit rings of sheet metal sold by the vendors.

With no gland rings, the manifold is free to "walk" against the face of the block. And it will, with every heat cycle it goes through, regardless of what kind of goo/sealant is used to make a "seal", and no matter what type of gasket is used. it may run for a while, but you'd better hope it stays straight.

The thick Cooper gland rings Snyder's sell act as gasket and gland ring in one piece. They are formed from material that is thick enough for you to file some lead-in to make for easier fitting. They are re-usable. If price is the problem, you could probably buy 3 sets for the same money direct from the manufacturers, Fuel Tank and Radiator Services in Queensland , Australia. Or you could just go on with the
same old same old.

Allan from down under

Substantial gland rings combined with copper gaskets would give support and probably act to keep manifold temperatures down, which would prevent warping.

Adding some support for the exhaust pipe back toward the u-joint might also help.

Proper management of the fuel mixture and spark timing will make life easier for the exhaust manifold as well as the engine.

Running an engine with leaky exhaust manifold gaskets is hard on the manifold.

The original picture shows the very early 3 in 1 bits and pieces....all done!

Yup...check for a straight manifold...warped ones don't do too good at sealing, and the new ones are about the cheapest investment you can make.

I use the steel sleeves and copper crush rings myself. Not overly frugal but just think those modern copper repurposed 'fittings' have a place...but not for me.

Clean out the counterbores in the block (if there are any left, use a dental pick or awl if you must)

Clean out the counterbores in the manifold.

Apply grease to the steel sleeve and 'stick' it to the manifold

Slide on the copper crush rings until flush

Using all 'three hands' set the manifold(s) in place.

Start down on the clamps until you feel the copper start to compress

Take another 1/2 turn and call it quits. The grease will burn off on about 5 minutes (others use RTV for the same purpose)

I for one do not reuse the copper crush rings on intake...just historically a waste of time in my book, I just keep a bag of copper rings around and if I don't get a seat on the intake (starter fluid test) I just redo from scratch, usually always get it the second time around.

I'm not a believer in those expensive ones (yet) as they too may be better as a once and done for the same reasons? Maybe fine on the exhaust? The intake could get expensive unless you sneak up on it? But that is not really an option unless you are willing to sneak up on the exhaust at the same time?

George perhaps I can persuade you to become an adoptee. A set of 6 of the one piece heavy copper rings costs approx US$17 directly from FTRS in Queensland. You could share a few sets with friends and still get them all sent for the one set of postage costs.

Allan from down under.

Ok, thanks for all the replies.
I did not realize that those gaskets were paper when i bought them.
The fourth cylinder exhaust has dropped down about 1/4" to 5/16"...
and the threads at the pack nut were shot with only 3 turns remaining.

So, I bought a new exhaust manifold, and a set of original rings & glands.
It took three hands to install it today.

Hi Vern,
Only three hands, Dont pi$$ off the third hand thats good. Please don't get this wrong but what color green is that a model A color? Glad you
got it together.
Craig.

If "original" glands are the thin ships of folde sheet metal I would replace them with solid rings to protect that new manifold. They are only straight once. Look what happened to your original manifold.

Allan from down under.

Craig,
I tried to match the color that was already on the engine and transmission.
Maybe this is what the New Orleans assembly plant thought was drake green.
Allan,
I used this kit:
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/prod ... 81307&cat=
Do you think I should weld the ends together?

Hi Vernon,
My coment on the color was more in jest as I have seen T engines in every color in the rainbow. I incorrectly paint mine black, ford grey & cast
blast & black tappit cover & trans cover. That is just one I have not seen before on a T as far as I can remember. Allen is a perponent of solid rings
I have not tried that. I do know that if the timing & fuel mixture are off enough to turn the exhaust manifold red all bets are off when it comes
to keeping the manifold from warping. The solid rings of heaveier material may be a + but to my thinking the split & rolled rings may have been a
ease of assembly thing more than a design function. I'm sure someone has the documentation to proove me wrong and thats OK. I have taken D
shaped rings out of a manifold that was real warped so I dont think they deserve the credit they get. A well installed straight manifold with the
muffler supported as intended ( and not hanging on the exhaust pipe from the manifold) with proper timing & mixture will last a very long time.
The number one thing I like about model T's is the fact that they can be enjoyed for reasonable cost especially if you can do alot of the work
yourself, the people in the hobby are great & the public loves them. There is few things as much fun as going to the gas station to fill up the night before a tour and coming home 2 hours later after dozens of pictures with people & kids in your car and some laps around the parking lot with
someone that has never been in a car older than a 1996.
Craig.

Vern, those are the thin rolled sheet metal glands. When a manifold is removed they can be in all sorts of mis-shape. A better ring can be cut with a chop saw from a length of exhaust tubing.

The heavy copper set of 6 Snyder's can be bought from the makers in Australia for around US$ 17.50 Buy a few sets for the same postage as one set and share the reduced cost with your mates.


Allan from down under.

Craig,
I found a better sample of whatever the green it was and have no clue if it's original.
This photo is from when we bought it.

I found a better sample of whatever the green it was and have no clue if it's original.

No, it's not. This is an original 1927 cutaway on display at THF.

varmint wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:13 pm

Craig,
I found a better sample of whatever the green it was and have no clue if it's original.
This photo is from when we bought it.
engine sample.jpg

Is that paint or moss?

I have no opinion on the originality of the paint, but I do know this: having been flooded in salt water and then allowed to molder, I doubt that any of us knows exactly what a particular paint or paint color would do under those circumstances.

Paint or Moss?
Really good question.

That color is close to some garden equipment made in China or overseas.

I had a 1927 Ford with about 6,000 miles on it and the original engine color matched the original Model A engine colors.

I have a can of paint that has all the items in it to make the color of my truck box, which is close to the engine color.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:49 pm

I found a better sample of whatever the green it was and have no clue if it's original.

No, it's not. This is an original 1927 cutaway on display at THF.


https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/download/f ... &mode=view

This is one of my favorite examples of Ford Engine ("Highland?") Green... it's awfully hard to say this isn't it, since it is an unmolested original (cutaway) motor from Ford... And it;s far more durable than the "carbon tinted asphaltum" which they washed over engines before...